Cycling & Frustrated...Please Advise!

menale

menale

AC Members
May 11, 2007
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Papillion, NE
OK, so here's the drama from the past month...I bought a 20G tank and a filter for a 30G tank, as well as, the rest of the stuff for setup and on the advice of the employee at Petsmart, set the tank up 3 days before I added fish. So on April 26th, we stocked the tank with 1 rubber-lipped pleco, 1 molly, and two fancy guppies.

Over the next 10 days, we lost all but the Molly, who is still going strong.
So ever since we lost the second guppy I have been searching the internet, getting books from the library, talking to LFS staff (not Petsmart) and generally obsessing over this tank.

On May 12th, I added the platys. From then on, I kept doing water changes every other day or every day depending on the results I got for ammonia.

On May 24th I got some Bio-Spira and after a 30% WC, I added 1.5 oz of that to the filter. I was really excited when 3 days later, I finally started to see the ammonium go down and started to nitrites show up. Then I went ahead and added another 1.5 oz of Bio-Spira. Things started to look more stable and from information I had read on this site, I went ahead and added the danios and a pleco so the nitrifying bacteria would have the chance to work with the full bio-load in the tank.

Well, finally, I had no ammonia showing up, the nitrites were at 2ppm and the nitrates were at 40ppm. I have been doing PWCs (R/O water) and adding AmQuel+ to neutralize the nitrites.

Last night(Wed) I checked the levels again and they were high, so I changed out about 5G. Tonight, these are my readings:

(All readings are done with API Master test, except for the KH & GH which were done with a strip test)

pH 7.2
Ammo .50ppm
TrItes 2.0ppm
TrAtes 10ppm
Temp 74
GH 75 Soft
KH 120 Ideal

So to get to my point here, I went ahead and ordered 2 more 3 oz Bio-Spira bags. They should be here today as they get shipped with cold packs overnight.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should be doing next? I am to that point of total frustration, but I am determined to stick with it!!
I hope that I have provided enough info - haha. If you need more info on something let me know.

Oh and please be kind, my husband is already making fun of me for obsessing over this tank. I appreciate any help you can give me!
 
Tank Info

It didn't put my tank info at the bottom, so here it is:

20G Tank
30G Capacity Rena SmartFilter
1 Lyretail Sailfin Dalmation Molly
1 Rubber-lipped Pleco
2 Red Wagtail Platys
4 Zebra Danios
2 Long-finned Zebra Danios
 
your best bet would be to do more water changes with changing more water. try changing 50-75% of the water. when you see more then .25 of ammonia or nitrites do a large water change. not to knock bio spira but just adding it should speed the cycle up but it wont help with make the water safe.

just so you know next time if your tank is cycling its not a good idea to add more fish to the bio load. hope everything works out.
 
bigger water changes are needed...as said above whenever you see ammonia or nitrite at .25. And if that's twice a day then so be it. There's no silver bullet if you want to try and keep the fish going through the cycle.

A water conditioner like Prime which detoxifies ammonia will help to lessen the effect of exposure to the higher levels of ammonia.
 
I would stop the money spending on Bio Spira and just do water changes, 30-50% whenever you see ammonia or nitrites hit .25.

Also, what are the same readings on your tap water?
 
Thanks for your advice so far! There have been days when I have done more than one PWC in a day and in general, most of the PWC have been between 20% to 40%. I am using R/O water and then adding Seachem's Neutral Regulator to raise the pH. The readings on this water are:

ph 7.2
Ammo 0
NitrItes 0
NitrAtes 0
Temp 73 - 74 (after sitting for a day to get to room temp)
GH 75 Soft
KH 120 Ideal
Chlorine/Chloramines 0

The reason I haven't done larger water changes is because I thought that would slow or stop the cycling by removing or disturbing the bacteria growing on the gravel or the filter (if I do larger WCs I would need to turn off the filter so I wouldn't damage the motor). Is this correct?

Oh and mgamer, there are SO many things I would do differently with the knowledge I have gained since starting. I would NOT do a fishy cycle and would probably try to find someone to 'borrow' some seeded material from:).

I figured I would try the Bio-Spira one more time while still doing PWC and monitoring levels. Any suggestions for attempting to make the best possible conditions when I do add the Bio-Spira?

I guess I have more $ and time to obsess, than I do patience and brains!:nilly: (Also, it's heartbreaking to explain to my 6-year-old why his favorite fish has gone to fish heaven :cry:.) Again, thanks for your help!

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menale said:
I figured I would try the Bio-Spira one more time while still doing PWC and monitoring levels. Any suggestions for attempting to make the best possible conditions when I do add the Bio-Spira?
Click to expand...

Bio-Spira is the best thing since Neosporin and themed cartoon character band aids.

You can cycle a tank with Bio-Spira within ~48 hours. Bio-Spira works, it's no hype, it's awesome, I'd never cycle another tank in my life without Bio-Spira, and trust me, I've cycled -alot- of tanks with Bio-Spira.

The reason some people aren't singing Bio-Spira praises is because as you can imagine, living bacteria are a delicate thing. I've had dead Bio-Spira batches. I can't even "blacklist" certain stores, because sometimes they sell good batches, sometimes they don't. It could have died anytime... during packaging, transit, storage... who knows?

So back to your situation. Here's my portfolio of Bio-Spira tricks:

First and foremost, go to marinelands website . On the left hand side you'll find the "Find a Marineland Retailer in Your Area" box. Check your area, make phonecalls to those stores, asking if they carry Bio-Spira. Find 3 different stores which sell it. Go to those 3 stores and buy one 1oz pack at each one. That'll increase your chances that one of them will be good. You -can- do it with 2, but I suggest 3.

Then, best case scenario, you're starting a new tank. Take fresh water, treat it with Prime, add your fish, and add your Bio-Spira. You should be cycled in ~48 hours.

Now, your scenario is a bit more difficult. You might already have too much ammonia in the water. Ammonia kills bacteria... that's why it's in a lot of cleansers. I suggest massive water changes. 2 to be exact. Do a 60% water change, wait around 24 hours and do another 60% water change. Your water should only smell faintly like ammonia now. Add your 3 packs of Bio-Spira and you'll be once again good in ~48 hours.

Last but not least, I suggest not feeding during that time. No need to add more to the bioload as it is. Once you're cycled, slowly start feeding and build up to normal feeding amounts within 3-5 days.
 
^ ^ good call^ ^
bio spira or another good source of bacteria can get the cycle done in short order..but as mentioned if the ammonia is to high it can kill the bacteria you need.

hang in there and heed the advice you hve recieved here.

remember that a large water change will rid the ammonia and nitrites fast then several small water changes..
 
Sorry I didn't answer back sooner, but my husband took me out to dinner & a movie! But I digress...I did a 9G WC at about 5:00pm, I had tested the water before I put it in to the tank:

pH 7.0
Ammo 0
NitrItes 0
NitrAtes 0
Temp 74
GH 75 Soft
KH 120 Ideal
Chlorine/Chloramines 0

So I tested the water in the tank about 1/2 hour later:

pH 7.2
Ammo 0
NitrItes 2.0ppm
NitrAtes 20ppm
KH 120 Ideal
GH 75 Soft

Arrgh! So then I added some Prime, because I wasn't sure what else to do in the short time before we left. The fish seem fine, so I will do another PWC in the morning.

Alestro: I really appreciateyour advice. Unfortunately for me, no one and I mean NO ONE sells Bio-Spira here in Omaha, Nebraska. I called every fish/pet store in town and either I got a "What's Bio-Spira?" or "No, we don't carry it because there is not enough demand for it." (Like I said earlier I have lots of time:naughty:.) So I have to order mine online. The first batch I got was from Drs Foster & Smith, this time I am trying Aquariumplants.com, but they can't ship it until Monday, so I won't get it now until Tuesday. So I will just keep up with doing testing and PWC until then.

Also, when you have purchased it in the past what does a good product look like?

When I do get the stuff on Tuesday, I will follow your advice about changing the water, feeding, etc. I'll keep you updated on what happens.

Thanks again for everyone's advice, I had already ordered the Bio-Spira when I made the original post and couldn't cancel the order w/o a cancellation charge. This site has really given me a lot of information that I wouldn't necessarily have found in books and I really appreciate that!
 
Sometimes, when I was going thru my cycle, I had to do 3-4 water changes a day to keep my levels down to keep my fish alive. Now Im good!
 
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