Cycling v2.0 What I'm planning to do.. Long post

[Neo Sithlord]

So after almost 2 months of fishless cycling and reading tons of stuff I'm tossing in the towel as it isn't going how I'd hoped it would. Well on the fishless cycle anyways. I've been spring cleaning and as a result I had to move my tank No real choice as I have very little space and I'm trying to maximize it. So I stopped at the LFS today before I began cleaning and they had a Penguin 170 bio wheel filter on sale. I've been eyeing it up for afew weeks so I decided to buy it and do the big move. I decided to do a fish cycle from here on out though. My tank before the move and filter change was moving ammonia and nitrites slowly. With a hint of the nitrates on the rise.


Now here's what I did today. I drained the tank 95% (first time I've changed water over 30% and learned some cool tricks by doing it). I put all my fake plants in a 2 gallon pail filled with tank water to keep them wet along with one of my smaller decorations. I kept the old filter filled with water untill the tank was fully set up and powered on. The temp of the water I put in was 76 degrees F which is the low end temp the tank has been running at. It hangs at 78 to 80 degree with the hood closed. I set the heater to hold the tank at 80 to 82 degrees now and it seems to be stable. I used the hopelessly clogged filter media from the old filter in the new one and also used my finger to scrape the brownish bio sludge from the old filters resorvoure (sp?). I put the bio sludge into the new filter and also spread some on the bio wheel. I also used the tube for the old filter instead of the one that came with it. The parts between the two are interchangable so all good there.


The glass and all of the decorations had a white film on them I left the decorations alone as far as cleaning went but wiped the glass clean for looks as far as I can tell it's mineral deposits. The plants have some remnants of this cycling "snake oil" type stuff I tried to use called Biozyme. I left it on them for now since it's just organic wheat based powder.


The substrate got stirred up as I added the water to the tank but beyond that it wasn't touched. I don't have an under gravel filter so I wasn't to worried about it getting stirred up.


Once the tank was set up I did a quick reading on my water perams and had;
New vs. before move
10 ppm Nitrate vs. 60 ppm
.3 ppm Nitrite vs. 10 ppm+
100 ish GH vs. same
100 -120 KH vs. same
7.0 PH vs. 7.2
I only used the quick test strips and they are slightly inacurate but this matches my tap water minus the nitrites. I had NItrites off the chart though before the move and I mean WAY OFF THE CHART! So I'm assuming it's a result of that and the remnat of H2O in the substrate.


I brought the ammonia back upto 5ppm to feed the remaining nitrogen cycle for the next week untill I can add fish to the tank to start fishy cycling it (My next day off isn't until monday). I hope it can pick up enough load to speed the fishy cycle along abit. I'll be testing daily just to be sure I still have some kind of cycle before I add fish.


If you've read this far I appreciate it. So what do you think? Did I do anything wrong with in reason? I know most folks here swear by the fishless method but honestly after what I've been through it isn't worth doing unless you have something to jump start it. I guess after watching the 4 clown loaches at the LFS for a half hour I finnally snapped like a Betta in a comunity tank. This is just what I need to switch to now before I scrub the whole works.
Thankyou,
-Neo Sithlord

 

[daveedka]

Sorry to hear things didn't go well for you on the fishless cycle, the only thought Id have is add fish very slowly, and test very frequently to make sure nothing spikes high enough to hurt the fish. this is where fishless cycling is dangerous, if you use one or two small fish and don't let your ammonia and nitrite get high you will be O.K. Once things settle down add one or two fish a week until stocking is complete, and watch for spikes during the stock increases. Before I knew about fishless cycling, I did this a lot, and could keep my fish healthy with some patience and close monitoring. With the transfer and the lenghts you went to to preserve what you already started it should go very quickly and very painlessly. You may be in better shape than you realize. My fishless cycle held high nitrites for what seemed like an eternity then overnight they just dissapeared, and everything has been perfect since (knock on wood) The cycling sticky covers some great tips on fishy cycling as well. the process is of course the same, you just can't keep the high ammonia levels with fish in the tank. My personal standard during a fishless cycle is to never let things get above 0.5 ppm on ammonia or nitrite, if it goes higher bring it down with water changes.

 

[Neo Sithlord]

Dave any suggestions on fish to start with in a community tank? I'm afew days off yet. It's Friday April 30th and was planning on adding the poor fish Monday to Wed. next week. The ammonia I seeded the tank with is coming down alittle and I'm getting some reading on nitrites and nitrates, still pretty low. I think the combo of the new filter and having no choice but to replace the transfered filter pad may be contributing factors. I left the old pad rinsed from the old tank water in the new filter for 2 days to hopefully bleed off afew of the bactiria. Then after needing to compleatly replace it I put it in the flow from the filter and has a bubble stone under it in the main tank. No idea if that's any help for what I'm doing but figured it couldn't hurt. I guess from what I've read it would seem that I'm on week 2 of a fishy cycle without the fish. I'm hoping to do a massive water change again on Sunday night then doing a reading Monday to see where the seeded ammonia stands. Then doing a water change if the need arises Monday to level any abnormal readings out. If everything checks out I'm going to try and find some fish to start the fishy cycle. I hate to do it this way but I think it was just fate or bad luck however one looks at it.
-Neo Sithlord

 

[pinballqueen]

Danios are a good community fish to cycle with, as they are fairly hardy to stressful water conditions, and they will go well with just about anything in a community that isn't nervous or predatory.

I would stay away from anything delicate (tetras come to mind) or anything with pronounced barbels (including cories and plecos, because poor water quality leads to barbel erosion), just until the cycle is complete, at which point you *could* trade any hardy-but-not-what-you-REALLY-wanted fish in on some of the more delicate species.

What sort of tank are you going to be looking for, overall, after the cycle has completed?

Do a bit of research to see what types of fish you're going to want to ultimately have, and we can see if they would do well to cycle with.

Since you are going to go about this in the fishy method, be aware that it is a little more labor-intensive overall than the fishless, due to the fact that you'll be changing the water VERY often to keep your fish healthy....

I'm sorry you're having such a time gettin things going. Don't get too discouraged!

 

[daveedka]

I'm with PBQ on the danio's, I've had the best luck with them, Feeder guppies also work well, the fancy guppies aren't as hardy, and depending on your fish stocking the feeders can either live harmoniously, or become what they were raised to be. I generally use giant danio's for a large tank, and just use zebra's for the little tanks. danio's aren't my favorite fish but I don't find them hard to look at, and usually keep them untill I find someone who wants them most LFS's won't take them back, but some may. As far as the questions about your media transfer etc. Anything at all that can transfer bacteria will help. the more the better, but essentially the first 2 or 3 weeks of the fishless cycle is waiting for the bacteria to appear, adding any at all will immediatly allow it to start multiplying and speed things up to some degree or another. With the levels you are getting, I would say you are at least part way through the cycle, and water changes won't slow things down much if at all.
HTH
Dave

 

[trancecommander]

Hey Neo ... I'm fairly new here but having just gotten through fishy cycling myself, I thought I'd tell you how it went for me.

I have a 36 gal tank ... and personally couldn't bear to see an empty tank during the cycling process. Besides, I'd already added the fish before I found out about fishless cycling.

I started with 4 mollies and one swordtail. One of the mollies passed on the very first day (I suspect he might have been the weak one to start with). The rest of the gang adjusted really well ... and in fact are still alive and well. I didn't see any alarming spikes in my params. The amonia and nitrItes did spike but with daily water changes, I got through pretty well I think.

The whole cycling process took about 5 weeks in my case. By the thied week, I was already spending HOURS at the LFS staring at the fish I would like to add (and almost gave in to the temptation a few times). But I held off till the whole process finished and now have a healthy tank thanks to the patience. But you've probably got a head-start on the process with the media and stuff you used from the other tank.

So ... alls I can say is ... patience is key here !! Do plenty of water changes in the meantime. Fishy cycling will take considerably longer ... but you'll have some fish to look at in the process !!

Good luck!!

Yash

 

[anonapersona]

contrary opinion

First, throw out those strips and get a real test kit. then you'll know where you really are.

Second, keep your filer clean enough to allow flow through it. Your description of the gunky filter makes me think that you were past the completion of the cycle and in need of a large water change and a clean filter.

 

[Neo Sithlord]

Well things are going good so far. I did a water test when I got home tonight from work and my ammonia has dropped from 5ppm to about 1 ppm. My nitrites are at about 8-10 ppm and there's at least a slight increase in nitrates. I did the move 4 days ago so I think saved my progress in the cycle at least. Hopefully it'll be enough. I'm going to remove the old filter pad from the tank Saterday night after work (may 1st) and add abit more ammonia then recheck my perams over the following 2 days just to make sure everything is still moving along with out it, After that I guess it's going to be fishy.

First, throw out those strips and get a real test kit. then you'll know where you really are.

I'm using Wal Mart's Jungle strips for quick tests and have a full Red Sea liquid test (Minus Nitrates no idea why it didn't come with one) kit to mesh out the detailed readings (Having a harder time reading these but they do zone in on a smaller level) along with an Aquarium Phamaceuticals Ammonia test (Liquid) which I really like. I personally find the strips abit easier to read and far less time comsuming as with the liquid ammonia test both are 30 sec to a minute. Any other test kits out there I should look at? What do you guys use?
Again I always apreciate the help I've gotten here. I just like to ask as many questions as possible.
Thankyou again,
-Neo Sithlord

 

[pinballqueen]

I use the TetraTec test kit they carry at Walmart for 24.99 and a nitrate test from the fish store (don't ask me brands, because the label got pulled off mine while I wasn't looking, but it was a common brand, maybe AP )

Keep in mind that while the testing may seem really really time consuming now with you having to do it on a daily basis, you'll greatly slow down on the testing front when the tank is fully cycled. I think I test my nitrates once a week and almost never test my ammonia unless I suspect a problem in the tank (at which point I do a full test of everything...) so it might be a good idea to get used to the liquid kits instead of the strips because it might save a fish one day Strip kits are only good for testing hot tubs (Worked for a chalet rental cleaning hot tubs for a while, and the strips are definitely cool.. but just not as accurate since they are instant tests.)

 

[trancecommander]

I initially used test strips as well ... I used the Mardell 5 in 1 test along with the same brand ammonia test strip. They worked pretty well I thought but I just wasn't convinced with the accuracy of the strips. So, I switched to test-tube testing. I got the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Test Kit from Big Al's for $12.99. It tests for freshwater pH, high range pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. It's been working like charm !! At first, I jotted down the results I got from the tet kit and then ran over to my LFS and had them test the water as well. Both reading were exactly the same.

I know it can be a pain testing using the tubes ... but once the cycling is over ... its not much work at all. I test once a week before I do my water change. The whole thing takes my not more than 10 minutes including cleanup.