cycling with raw shrimp

[Corax]

Corax, it takes maybe a week longer, not that much time, and cycling a tank is never wasted time. No one ever argued against fishless cycling. All that was said was that fishy cycling is an option.

I am sure you aren't perfect in every way since on one is. If someone where to speak like that to you, I am sure that you would be offended and not care about what they had to say. People don't listen to the advice of people who talk down to them.

When I see someone dogging a method I know for a fact is highly efficient and works very well, I'll educate them. He is advocating a cruel method of cycling and that kind of 1970's thinking needs to be stamped out whenever it is found. All serious keepers that I know strongly oppose cycling with fish.

corax, about roughly how long did it take for your shrimp in your 29 gallon to vanish?
i have these 2 jumbo shrimp in my 29 and they don't smell and they are raw just to let you know.

figuratively speaking what if my ammonia is right off the charts and they have not dissappeared yet, can i just remove them? and continue a good cycle or what?

About 2 weeks as I recall. After that, the ammonia level kept my test kit maxed for 2 weeks. You could remove it if you want, but it really isn't going to speed the process up much. I suggest rubber gloves and a lot of anti-bacterial soap if you go diving in that tank. As I said, I use 1 per 30 gallons, so you've doubled that. Pulling them shouldn't hurt a thing, but don't expect the levels to go down until the bacteria can handle the levels. I'm amazed that 2 aren't stinking you out of the house. Do you have a filter running? With carbon? When I do it, I run 2 powerheads to circulate the water, and nothing else.

Also... The goal of doing a massive cycle isn't to add 20 fish the first day. It's to add 5 fish with a LOT of room for expansion in the next couple weeks. Cycling shouldn't harm or endanger any living creature in any way at all. Snails, fish, whatever... All life deserves equal respect. Just because a Danio costs 99 cents doesn't make it worth less than something more expensive. Life is life.

 

[z71silverado98]

it doesnt matter how massive of a bacteria colony you develop w/ the raw shrimp, if you dont match the bioload you will lose all but the bacteria that can live off of the 5 or so fish. then you add 5 more and the bacteria colony grow to accomodate.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD! i dont have a prob. w/ fishless cycling! id just prefer to do it w/ fishfood!

SHOW ME WHERE I SAID IT WAS A BAD IDEA?! i questioned it, then said "id do it..." this way, to paraphrase "if it were me starting out i would go about it this way."

just seems your hard-headed and confrontational. Ill be blunt too, if someones acting like a jerk, ill let 'em know.

MTS or any other small snail can live through a cycle w/out harm, its not bad advice! If i were setting up a restaurant aquarium id fishless w/ flakes to match what they can handle. If i were helping a newbie id recommend snails so they can get acustomed to the routine before throwing cash on a bunch of fish.

 

[Corax]

it doesnt matter how massive of a bacteria colony you develop w/ the raw shrimp, if you dont match the bioload you will lose all but the bacteria that can live off of the 5 or so fish. then you add 5 more and the bacteria colony grow to accomodate.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD! i dont have a prob. w/ fishless cycling! id just prefer to do it w/ fishfood!

SHOW ME WHERE I SAID IT WAS A BAD IDEA?! i questioned it, then said "id do it..." this way, to paraphrase "if it were me starting out i would go about it this way."

just seems your hard-headed and confrontational. Ill be blunt too, if someones acting like a jerk, ill let 'em know.

MTS or any other small snail can live through a cycle w/out harm, its not bad advice! If i were setting up a restaurant aquarium id fishless w/ flakes to match what they can handle. If i were helping a newbie id recommend snails so they can get acustomed to the routine before throwing cash on a bunch of fish.

The bacteria colony that doesn't have sufficient food doesn't die, it goes dormant. Meaning, once the ammonia levels return to the previous levels, the bacteria comes back faster. Meaning, the future mini-cycles will be hours instead of days. :read:

 

[daveedka]

Read this article: Cycling a tank

the point with fishless cycle is to pretty much explode your tank with bacteria so you can fully stock in one shot. and yes i didn't look to hard for ammonia and went with what i knew, either fishless or fishy cycle, and fishy cycle is to much work.

Fishy cycling in a humane manner is a lot of work, and unnecessary. It can be done and done properly, but it is labor intensive.

The downside to not using ammonia is the ability to control levels. high levels of ammonia counteract the growth of the Nitrite eaters, and slow the cycle unnecessarily.
Whether fish food shrimp or anything else is used they will work, but are not the easiest option. If I were to use something like this, I would probably add a nd remove the rotting agent as needed to maintain levels in the 4-5 pm range for the first part of the cycle, and then in the 3-4 range once nitrites reach testable levels. Leaving the shrimp sit threre will get the job done, but the extra high ammonia, and additional pollutants are not needed, May be counterproductive and therefore would be a negative in my book.

The bacteria colony that doesn't have sufficient food doesn't die, it goes dormant. Meaning, once the ammonia levels return to the previous levels, the bacteria comes back faster. Meaning, the future mini-cycles will be hours instead of days.

This is actually False Corax, Bacteria dies off to available food levels, available O2 levels and or Available surface area. A good base colony can consume much more food than it needs to survive, so it will compensate for reasonable increases in bio-load. Since bacteria reproduces by splitting, it's reproduction is exponential and therefore a good base colony will increase quickly to compensate for increases. Either way it does die off and anything more than reasonable increases will create a significant situation for fish.

Additionally a few days without any kind of dosed food (Ammonia) and you will lose your colony at which time you will need to start over completely.

Dave

 

[Ms.Bubbles]

Read this article: Cycling a tank

The link leads to another forum, which requires registration before being able to read it. Isn't there an article on cycling a tank here at AC? There used to be!

Does anybody want to write one? Cycling a tank is probably the single most important thing a new aquarium owner needs to know, so a detailed article would really be helpful on this site...

 

[RTR]

I think that we are polarizing this a bit too heavily. No one argued flatly against fishless cycling as such, nor flatly argued that there is any special lack from fishless cycling.

Fishless cycling is not a single technique, it is a process which can be achieved by various techniques. It can be done with ammonia, as codified by Nomad (Dr. Cris Cow) and popularized by him and the crew from Tom's Place years ago., It can be done with dry chemicals if you have the access and a good analytical scale, as had been done in SW year ago. That technique established the nitrite-oxidizers first, BTW, to which there are certain advantages. It may also be done with fish food, which offers the advantge of establishing the heterotrophs and saprophytes at the same time, which the ammonia-only process does not. It can be done with a sufficient quantity (biomass) of common snails and feeding them heavily. It can be done with rotting meat, as the shrimp technique employs. Thare may well be other variants which I have not done or heard about, But of those, I would select the household ammonia-based process as the technique of choice for novices. It does teach the use of hobby test kits (and some of the hassles of that) and the highly important fact IMHO that what you can't see can adversley affect or kill your fish.

ALL of those processes can work, all have both pluses and minuses. Everybody has their own tank and has free choice of which which technique they elect to use for themselves. None is absolutel;y right, or wrong. All are valid. That does not mean that all or equal in ease or in side issues. The possible/probable/IMHO likely stench of a smelly tank with a rotting shrimp precludes my using that particular technique. It is wrong for me. That does not mean that is wrong for any other particular indivual hobbyist.

 

[daveedka]

The link leads to another forum, which requires registration before being able to read it. Isn't there an article on cycling a tank here at AC? There used to be! Does anybody want to write one?

I have linked it several times and more than one person has read it without giving me this complaint. I will check into it's accessability before linking it again though. I am also checking into making it publicly accessable so the link will work for anyone. I do not know how tha will end up though.

additionally that same article is still posted here in the articles forum. I link the new site because it is my primary, and within a very short time a revised and improved version with photo's and quick links will be posted there. The revised article will be better than the original writing for general useand navigation while the information will be the same.


dave

 

[twig]

Corax, it takes maybe a week longer, not that much time, and cycling a tank is never wasted time. No one ever argued against fishless cycling. All that was said was that fishy cycling is an option.





I am sure you aren't perfect in every way since on one is. If someone where to speak like that to you, I am sure that you would be offended and not care about what they had to say. People don't listen to the advice of people who talk down to them.

I personally wouldn't be offended.

Grow some skin and enjoy a debate.
People can disagree with you. That disagreement is what forums thrive on.

 

[Ms.Bubbles]

OK, daveedka's article link now fixed + I found the link to it here on AC:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64301

 

[wannabefishguru]

im thinking that i should pull the shrimp out at an ammonia level oh lets say off the charts and ride the cycle out. i was too thinking it would be counterproductive to leave the shrimp in with an ammonia level achieved. so i will pull out my shrimp using my rubber gloves when my ammonia levels reach off the chart, does this sound like a plan?