dilemma

[fishyfishfish]

Ok, so wanted to start off my saying hello, this is my first post and I am a bit new to this I admit

I have a 30 gal tank with 2 Jewels 2 electric blues and 2 yellow labs, i know, its small, but i was thinking I was buying all juveniles. however, woke up today, and found my one yellow labs which constantly hides out was in the open looking distressed, i gave them a small feeding and went to work.

came back from work about to do a water change watched them for a bit and found that my 2 jewels were taking turns in the yellow labs old hiding spot and soon found that one of my rocks had pimples.... yes they are eggs... jewels were taking turns fanning the eggs.

problem is, im going on vacation in 3 weeks and I fear the worst discovering this little miracle, i was just going to put an auto feeder in there and hope for the best, but now im thinking of picking up a used 75 gal on the cheap and moving them all in there from the 30 gal with their eggs.

My water parameters aren't exactly the best in the 30 gal but I figured they would survive being only 6 smallish fish i usually change every 3rd day and do feed them quite generously when I am around my nitrate does reach to about 40ish in 3 days, when im around i sometimes do them a favor and change more often.

Now that they have babies it changes my plans, but i still wanted to go on vacation with the women since we made plans and its her bday.

So I was wondering if moving these 7 fish and eggs to a 75 gal would be best at this point to leave them in over a week, i would assume it wouldn't creep as high in a 75 gal in a weeks time with small feedings from an auto feeder every 12 hours with fry.

if i do end up doing the move, will the jewels still know to take care of the eggs?

 

[Manafel]

I'm personally no expert on breeding these fish, but here is my opinion:
I personally advise against getting the 75. It won't be cycled fully and might be worse for your fish in the long run unless you have established filter media, in that case you might get it to cycle in time.
If you move the eggs or the parents, the eggs might get eaten. Before you leave, don't feed your fish for a day or two, and do about 50-75% water changes. They should be fine.while you are gone.

Sent from my PC36100 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

 

[Wyomingite]

Yer between a rock and a hard spot. If ya don't move the parent jewels or the other fish, yer gonna risk havin' nothing but a pair of jewels and fry when ya come back from vacation.

I'd get a 55 or 75, and start cycling it by adding gravel from yer established 30. I'd also add a nitrifying bacteria supplement, the ones that say ya can add fish instantly. Nutrafin Cycle, by Hagen, works great. Just follow the instructions. Yer tank will be good for fish in a coupla days. I'd then leave the jewel parents in the 30 and move the rest to the larger tank.

I know a lotta folks ain't too big on the bacteria supplements. Five years ago I was the same way. I've used Cycle on several tanks now in situations similar to yours, where I needed a tank instantly, and have never lost a fish. As aggressive as jewels are, I wouldn't expect to see your labs, electric blues or the third jewel when ya come back from vacation if ya leave 'em in the 30. This will give the rest of yer fish a fighting chance.

WYite

 

[fishyfishfish]

Well, I'm going to see a used 75 Gallon today after work, and potentially another 72 gallon diamond shaped one with a stand and lid.

My apologies, I'm not sure where the 7th fish came from, bad math somehow but there are 6.

I do have Bio-balls in the back of the current filter and could use gravel from my current tank, I found some stuff at my lfs when I was having issues with an endless cycle that kicked it in to finishing but it was quite pricy the guy said it was actual live bacteria and was milky, Cycle seemed to me like nothing but a gimmick, it wasn't doing much for me.

My one lab is probably already a goner, but it was always sketchy soon as I got him, the other little lab fins are a little torn up but seems to be the fish that gets attacked the least, i think she gets a little to comfortable and might be getting to close to the cave till they go on a full on attack but they seem to let her get very close to the area.

As for the two electric blues, they seem to be very healthy, for the beatings they've taken from each other and the Jewels, they seem to be the hardiest and I think would likely survive at least in a bigger tank with them.

If the bio-balls, and the live bacteria supplement and used gravel don't work, if worst comes to worst I'll at least have a cycled tank which is a little more appropriate by the time I get back if they don't all eat each other, hopefully the used tank I'm going to see today is in decent shape.

 

[fishyfishfish]

I think one of my main concerns is water quality in the 30 gal for both fish and the fry. Can new born fry survive such high nitrates after a week? This is why i think a 75 gal would be more approriate since there is such are greater amount of water.

The funny thing, after i bought the two Jewels about a month ago I went back to the lfs to ask how old the fish were that they sold me and if there is a chance they could be ready to breed as I saw a lot of dancing/mating kind of behaviour he said "ah they are probably just fighting, they just turn different colors because one is dominant" now 2 - 3 weeks later I have eggs, he didn't even think that it was a male/female let alone a pair. From what I've read on the internet Jewels weren't supposed to be so easy to pair up.

 

[fishyfishfish]

Well Bad news, came back home with a 75 gal and bought and some hardware from the LFS, and the Eggs are missing, not sure if they are hiding or eaten.

Male yellow lab is missing a fin and parially missing the other fin, and had his tail chewed off. Small lab has one fin chewed a bit, I put the yellow lab in a small 5 GAL so he doesn't have to hide from these monsters to give him some piece, I doubt he's recover from this.

Electric blues are fine they seem to respect the teritories a little more and hang out at the other side of the tank.

Girl at the LFS suggested the fry could be in hiding, I guess its possible since the Jewels are still visiting the cave but either the fry are small or are really good at hiding I can't seem to find any, and there were at least 50 - 100 eggs, go figure.

 

[Wyomingite]

The eggs could have gotten fungused and subsequently ate, or could be the fry are hidin'. With that many other fish in the tank, the parents are gonna watch 'em closely until they get a little bigger. Don't rightfully recall just how long it takes jewel cichlid eggs to hatch, but in general most cichlid eggs hatch in 48-72 hours. Yer in that time frame. Generally, I don't see the fry from my substrate spawning cichlids for a few days after they hatch. Once the fry start growin' out a little, they'll start wanderin' farther from the cave and become targets for the other fish. That's when the problems will really begin, as the parents try to keep 'em together and protect 'em.

Here's another thread 'bout jewels, http://www.aquariacentral.com/forum...cichlids-could-I-keep-in-a-75-gallon-aquarium. IMO, ounce-for-ounce they are one of the nastiest cichlids 'round. Keep a close eye on the tank and be prepared to intervene.

WYite

 

[fishyfishfish]

Ok, they are definitely still kicking, I actually did find them in the substrate yesterday during a pwc yesterday. Parents seem to be picking them up and spitting them out in one place near a plant. They look like little dots with a tail, at first I kind of thought it was pooh but I saw them moving.

The Jewels seem to be super aggressive about any of the other fish near the bottom, the entire bottom of the tank belongs to them, and anything near the bottom gets a swift precision hit or gets chased away.

Really amazing how they care for them.

Been spinning up the new tank, doubt it'll be ready as mentioned to me previously, wouldn't really know how to move them in there anyway before leaving for vacation and they seem to be eating the gunk off the substrate.
Maybe move the other fish in there if I have a hint a nitrate in there prior to leaving.

 

[fishyfishfish]

Well I'm sad to say that the Baby Jewels all died, or were eaten while I was away, disaster struck in my absence, filter seized and the power cord somehow came loose off my light timer. The pair of jewels survived without filtration or any lighting although no idea how long it was out for.

I had ended up placing my 2 electric blues and yellow lab and even bought them 3 new friends(1 metriaclima zebra he’s a nasty bugger but gorgeous, 2 cyrticara morri) the tank cycled within like 3 days with the 3 fish in there with used bio balls from the 30 and some light cleaning of the filter from my 30 in to the 75 however got some Nitrite soon after adding the 3 new mbuna, did a 75% water change just before I left and all was well on the 75gal on my return, no sight of nitrites and the nitrates weren't too bad, no more rubbing on rocks as I saw just before I left.

As for the Jewels, they were getting along with the babies there but now that I've been back and only the pair are in the 30, the male started being a little aggressive toward the female since the lights have come back on I even saw a little lip action between them. both are looking a little stressed but I'm surprised at how hardy these fish are.

 

[ROYWS3]

You need to add something in there with the jewels so they don't take out their aggressions out on each other with the male usually winning that match. Add some dithers - something cheap, hardy and fast - zebra danios, serpae tetras etc. That will also strengthen the bond between the cichlid pair and probably put them back in the breeding mood