discus disease

Sploke

Sploke

resident boozehound
Staff member
Oct 20, 2005
6,800
66
75
44
South Windsor, CT
Real Name
Matt
I have a problem with my discus. From the original 4 I got several months ago, I had the one that survived. I think those guys brought in some sort of viral infection. By overcoming it, that one has built up a tolerance to it being in the water. Now, however, any time I add something new to the tank, 80-90% of the fish die. I added a school of cardinals, I'm down to 2 out of 12. I got 4 more discus, the last one just died today. They looked good when I got them home, then gradually got worse and worse. The only thing I can think of is that there's some virus in the water that some of the fish are able to beat, but everything else gets killed off by it. What I need to know is, will this be a "tank of death" forever? Will the threat pass by after 6 months or a year? I thought about breaking down the tank and sanitizing everything, but I think that the fish would carry it and just bring it back in. Anything I can do? Suggestions?
 
imported Discus are commonly carriers of a viral disease of generally unknown origin. it's rather a common Discus disease, where Discus show one or more of the following symptoms: Dark background color, Clamped fins, Hiding in a dark corner in the tank, The body mucus is visibly heavy, and often comes off the Discus. It appears this disease is probably caused by a virus, and there is no known cure.

It is not all that uncommon for all Discus in the tank to come down with the disease, except for the new Discus that were introduced sometime in the last two weeks. Discus that have had the disease can be a carrier of the virus. This disease is highly contagious and ultraviolet sterilization does little to prevent it from spreading from tank to tank. Just having two tanks in the same house that don't even come in contact with each other will often be enough to see it spread. It seems that the virus can go airborne, or maybe just putting your hand in one tank and not properly cleaning your hand before you stick it in another tank will cause it to spread. This disease is like the flu in humans, it will run its course and then your strong healthy Discus will recover. This disease will often kill small and old Discus. It is not all that uncommon that the discus hobbyist will lose half of his discus to this disease.

During the time the Discus have the disease they will still eat, but not as vigorously as when they are feeling one hundred percent. I recommend that you reduce the amount of food you feed them during this period to prevent any unnecessary pollution.

there's not much you can do except for frequent water changes (50% or more daily) for this disease. Frequent water changes will help reduce the organic load in the water column and increase the oxygen carrying capacity. Any attempts to medicate do nothing to cure the disease. Adding medication to the aquarium may cause more unnecessary stress the Discus can do without. This disease can take up to three weeks to run its course. Once your Discus are looking normal again, they will have some immunity to the disease for a while.

After your Discus have had the disease I would not recommend adding any new Discus to the aquarium for at least 6 months. If you add a Discus before then, you run the risk of the new Discus coming down with the disease.

this disease seems most commonly in Discus that are imported from Asia. The process of getting the Discus from Asia to your aquarium store is a multi step process. The Discus normally goes through 2 or 3 wholesaler hands before they end up in the aquarium store. In this process the Discus have several opportunities to be exposed to the virus. It is most unfortunate that the fish go through this process, because this is normally how the fish end up with the disease. The Discus that are produced in Asia are among the best in the world. It’s the process of getting them to your local aquarium store that makes them a risky buy. For this reason it is always safer to buy domestically bred Discus.
 
sound advice.
viruses on general cannot be treated with anti biotics..generally viruses need to run the course.
eventuallly the body can combat the virus and force the virus into a 'spore'' state..the virus is still virulent and can reappear given the right conditions.

generally a virus cannot be destroyed without destroying the host.

in some viruses medication can be given to lessen the impact of the Sx(symptoms) but that is all they do.

like in humans there is no know cure for the flu/colds..there are medicatioons to reduce the Sx but the virus will need to run it's course. the body eventually will contain the virus..but as with colds/flus..the virus will mutate when it moves from host to host.
 
Things like this are NOT a disease or virus!!!!! It is as simple as the new imports becoming acclimated to the new water source. Think of it like this...I go to Mexico on a Friday...I come back Sunday night. I eat and drink the local food and water, etc. The next few days im paying for it big time with me primarily being on the pot all the time... Anyone want to venture a guess as to why?? Its because im not used to the local bacteria there. The locals can drink the water and eat the food and be perfectly fine. Its because they have built tolerances to the bacteria in their area. And for me, my body has no tolerance for their local bacteria. So, the bodies natural way of dealing with it is by getting rid of it ASAP with my body getting sick. Same thing with imported discus. They need to be acclimated properly at the point of import. A good importer will know how to do this properly. The best way is to do several treatments over the course of a week or two with something like potassium permanganate, or 35% hydrogen peroxide, to get rid of as much bacteria in the tank environment as possible. By doing this, it will gradually allow the fishes immune system to become accustomed to the present bacteria. Doing this will decrease the chances of the fish breaking down in your tank.

Also, when importing discus, it is critical that the importer gets their fish from a breeder...NOT a broker. A broker goes all around Malaysia buying tankfuls of discus of different colors from countless breeders. They then bring all the fish together in one facility for a very short time....time enough to let them recover slightly and be starved for a 48 hour+ plane ride to where ever in the world. This allows cross contamination and sets the stage for the fish to break down in the importers tanks. Trust me, the source of your imported discus will make a world of a difference. Ive imported discus from Hong Kong, Malaysia and Singapore and have always imported from breeders, not brokers for that very reason alone. And every time, I have never had a single fish break down in my tanks or in any of my customers tanks either when they are acclimated properly. Plus, something you must know is that if you get them from a LFS, then their wholesaler most likely has imported them from a broker since a broker is able to get the cheapest prices in very large quantities. AND, in the aquaculture industry, turn over is everything....the faster you can flip it, the better. So, with large importers/wholesalers, they import on a Wednesday/Thursday and ship out on Monday/Tuesday to make room for another shipment. No QT time at all...just enough time for the fish to recover. Those reasons listed above are the primary reason why LFS discus are crap and dangerous.

-Ryan
 
And to answer Sploke's questions....I would just break everything down and bleach it all. Next time you get discus, get them from a local breeder or a reputable discus breeder/dealer who can ship them to you. Not all imports are bad or dangerous...its just how they are handled and where they come from. Know discus or no discus.

-Ryan
 
I have no idea whether these were imported or not. I still have the original one that I got a few months ago, he's very healthy. The other 4 looked good for hte first day, then slowly started showing signs of bad health: clamped fins, not eating, and almost totally black, hiding under pieces of driftwood laying almost flat on the bottom of the tank. I got them ordered from a small local fish store, who buys them from a wholesaler calles Fishmart. The labels on the bag said tank raised, I have no idea whether they were raised in the US or not.
 
Dkarc,

are you suggesting that there are no viruses that could be the root of the issue?

while I agree that there could be other issues at question...

I would never presume that this could not possibly be a virus.
 
Doubtful that it is a virus. If there was a virus at hand, then I know several people who would have wiped out all of their stock due to having countless sources of discus from several Asian countries and having dealt with these same issues as described above. The discus farms in Asia are generally very clean...its just when they are all brought together with different bacterias from different regions of the country do things happen like this. That, and you also need to realize that their immune system is severely compromised due to the less than ideal handling and care of the fish once they are exported out of Asia. Discus do stress very easily....and when they are stressed, they dont eat. When they dont eat, their body gets weak and their immune system is compromised. In the LFS, the receive less than ideal care and that stresses them even more and so everything combined kind of attacks the immune system and leaves a window open for almost any kind of "new" bacteria to wreck havoc on them.

Getting discus from either a reputable discus importer who imports from a breeder ( NOT a broker...a good importer will tell you straight up where they fish come from...hint: if they come from Singapore, they most likely come from a broker...from Malaysia or Hong Kong, then most likely a breeder) or getting them from a local breeder is your best bet and will give you a better start with discus in the long run. This will minmize your chances of your discus getting sick like this and possibly dying.

-Ryan
Orlando Discus
 
before i posted my response, i did some research on the issue of imported discus and found that viral infections were in fact, reported to be a significant factor in the death of these fish in the home aquarium. you're right when you say that these fish are subject to numerous exchanges during the trip from 'there' to 'here' and certainly their immune systems are compromised. according to many discusophiles, it is this very fact which leads to the virus being able to take hold. enough of these fish develop resistance to or are strong enough to begin with, to the disease process to make it through however, and this is the basis of successful marketing of such fish.

this is not to say that all imported fish come with such viral infections, and the shipping and transfer process in itself undoubtedly accounts for a significant proportion of the problems encountered.
 
Yea, speaking of sick discus, I just lost one on Sat. I noticed he was hiding a bit and not really eating then whammo. Sat. morning he is moving around the tank like some sort of drunk. he makes his way to the bottom holds himself up against some wood and eventually is laying on the bottom. The thing that gets me is he has not lost any color at all. he does however look a bit skinny( from not eating). So I figured I would try and save him. As soon as I get him in the Q tank he lives for about a minute and thats it. After I examined him closely I could see is tail fin was starting to fray and I noticed a white slime build up was starting. I aslo notice a very small red sore under his eye. i like to think I keep a good tank, I have never lost any fish in it abd its been up for 8 months. I do 2 x 30% wtare changes weekly. none of my other Discus show symptoms but I am watching them very carefully right now. I just can't beleive how fast things can go down for them. I would like to add another to replace him, should I wait or just get another one ? i really don't think my tank is the fault.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom