Discus doing great!!
- Thread starter pikwik
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Transcribed from Ad Koning's "Enjoying Cichlids"
"Fishes are cold blooded animals. they use fat both as an energy resource and as an energy reserve. Therefore they have fat deposits in several parts of thier body. Because fish are cold blooded, which means that their body temp varies with that of the surrounding water, they spcialize in faty acids with a low melting point. This prevents the fatty deposits from being rigid at low temperatures. Warm blooded animals store fatty acids which have a higher melting point. Because fishes cannot assimilate fat from warm blooded animals as well as they can from cold blooded animals, it is stored in the tissues, especially the liver. It has been shown in salmon that individuals fed with products from warm blooded animals show a tremendous increase in liver degereration compared to those fed with fish. Beef heart and any other meat from warm blooded animals is therefore extremely bad for your fishes."
I don't want to say millions of discus keeper are wrong, but....... maybe the use of beef products is a bit antiquated. It was probably originally used because shrimp was expensive and hard to come by. Now and days why not try to match your fishes captive diet more closely with it's natural fare. Incidentally, NK's recipe is very similar to the one recommended by Koning in this same book, except that he uses geletin as a binder instead of egg yolk, and adds some veggies and spirulina powder as well. I would go with NK's shrimp recipe over beefheart if I was feeding discus....which I'm not, so take my opinion for what it's worth.
"Fishes are cold blooded animals. they use fat both as an energy resource and as an energy reserve. Therefore they have fat deposits in several parts of thier body. Because fish are cold blooded, which means that their body temp varies with that of the surrounding water, they spcialize in faty acids with a low melting point. This prevents the fatty deposits from being rigid at low temperatures. Warm blooded animals store fatty acids which have a higher melting point. Because fishes cannot assimilate fat from warm blooded animals as well as they can from cold blooded animals, it is stored in the tissues, especially the liver. It has been shown in salmon that individuals fed with products from warm blooded animals show a tremendous increase in liver degereration compared to those fed with fish. Beef heart and any other meat from warm blooded animals is therefore extremely bad for your fishes."
I don't want to say millions of discus keeper are wrong, but....... maybe the use of beef products is a bit antiquated. It was probably originally used because shrimp was expensive and hard to come by. Now and days why not try to match your fishes captive diet more closely with it's natural fare. Incidentally, NK's recipe is very similar to the one recommended by Koning in this same book, except that he uses geletin as a binder instead of egg yolk, and adds some veggies and spirulina powder as well. I would go with NK's shrimp recipe over beefheart if I was feeding discus....which I'm not, so take my opinion for what it's worth.
Moo, its hardly antiquated. Discus breeders would not be ending up with some of the incredible fish they do if the beef was bad for the fish. The largest problem with beef, is making sure its hormone free as the hormones can effect the fish in the same ways as color enhancing hormones such as Methtestosterone do, by destroying internal organ, and or causing infertility. Beef is one of those tried and true foods for discus, I use it as a back up, but most large breeders aren't willing to get shrimp at $7/lb when they get beefheart for $1/lb or burger for $2/lb. The beef works, and is a healthy food for them (in all honesty there has probably been more research done on feeding discus for growth and health than any other fish out there, many of the Asian breeders have college education dealing specifically aimed at the production of tropical fish and understanding their needs, massive in house studies about feeding has been done with the big breeders over there) so until there is a conclusive amount of scientific proof provided that beef is infact harmful to the fish, I will keep advocating using it.
The binding agent in the shrimp mix I use, isn't the egg yolk. The shrimp itself acts as an incredible binder, holding the vitamins, calcium and the egg yolk itself. Its probably one of the cleanest foods available. Egg yolk is extremely water soluable, and has the potential to foul water very quickly, but its also an excellent source of nutrients for fish, using the shrimp, the egg yolk is held to the shrimp, and won't have a negative impact on the water quality unless sitting in the tank for quite some time. Both of the food mixes, beef and shrimp, won't cloud the water one bit, both are extremely clean.
Moo I would also reccomend trying the shrimp mix with the apistos, any carnivorous fish can really benefit from that food. Is an excellent fry food, and just as good as a staple diet.
The binding agent in the shrimp mix I use, isn't the egg yolk. The shrimp itself acts as an incredible binder, holding the vitamins, calcium and the egg yolk itself. Its probably one of the cleanest foods available. Egg yolk is extremely water soluable, and has the potential to foul water very quickly, but its also an excellent source of nutrients for fish, using the shrimp, the egg yolk is held to the shrimp, and won't have a negative impact on the water quality unless sitting in the tank for quite some time. Both of the food mixes, beef and shrimp, won't cloud the water one bit, both are extremely clean.
Moo I would also reccomend trying the shrimp mix with the apistos, any carnivorous fish can really benefit from that food. Is an excellent fry food, and just as good as a staple diet.
I wonder if the mammalian fatty acids (mentioned my Koning as being detrimental) are not a problem with discus because of the higher temperature at which they are kept? Certainly the salmon in the study cited were maintained at much lower temperatures.
I've have been thinking about blending up some shrimp mix for the apistos, just haven't gotten around to it. Probably going to wiat untill I use up all the frozen food i have stored away.
Also, to be fair, Koning also recommends that blood worms not be fed to ANY fish as they are sometimes collected from poluted waters. He may be a tad on the overcatious side.
I've have been thinking about blending up some shrimp mix for the apistos, just haven't gotten around to it. Probably going to wiat untill I use up all the frozen food i have stored away.
Also, to be fair, Koning also recommends that blood worms not be fed to ANY fish as they are sometimes collected from poluted waters. He may be a tad on the overcatious side.
