down to two neon tetras now

[russjet]

and only one has any white spot on it, so i think i may end up with one lonely neon on his own, as every single fish that had a single white spot has died.
eight so far,
if this or these two survive, i am stumped as to what to do
if i can not get some biospira imported,
a round trip to the US with a portable fridge (sounds like an expensive way to get a couple of ounces of fluid)

but more fish will have to suffer the cycle (i wish i found this forum before fish cycle)
will the last ten days of fish dying decrease the cycle that was happening as the fish load has got lighter?
or would it have grown any way

ammonia 0.50
nitrite 0.25
nitrate 10
ph 8.4 this has risen a bit is that because of salt
temperature 86

i have been doing daily 25% water changes replacing the salt (except sunday as my little boy was ill )

my husband is already asking if i want to sell the tank on ebay one owner bad history

when he bought the tank he bought a little colosseum for in it (we went to greek islands on honeymoon)and that is where all the fish go to die so it is now the mausoleum


and does anybody know how the spray bar on a fluval4plus filter works as i am considering getting one, if it is better than the jet of water that currently is coming out of the filter, does it go above the water and spray down onto the water or go underneath the waterline it did not say on the box

thanks in advance

 

[ArkyLady]

russjet, I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. I know it can be frustrating. The bacteria that cycle the tank will only grow as much as needed to process the waste being produced in the tank (or added in the case of a fishless cycle). So let's say these last two neons do survive and the tank finishes cycling, there will only be enough bacteria to process the waste of two neons. When more are added there will be "mini-cycles" as the bacteria multiplies to handle the additional waste. The mini-cycles are much easier to deal with than what you've been going though and if you only add 1 or 2 fish at a time, that helps a lot. Hope that all makes sense, I just got up not long ago

Do you think the LFS will take the fish back? Maybe they will even though they are sick if you don't want your money back for them? They should have quarantine and hospital tanks setup. Since you've already lost most all your fish, it would be best if you could start with a fishless cycle from this point. You already have some bacteria starting, so it shouldn't take long (maybe 3-4 weeks). Then once it's done you can fully stock your tank and shouldn't have nearly as many problems as you've had so far.

I've never had good luck with tetras (neons and glowlights are all I've kept). I'm not sure why that is, but I've bought them from two different sources and still ended up losing most of them. And this is with fully cycled, established tanks. Trying to cycle with them would be next to impossible I'd think.

 

[russjet]

i am attached to them as are the family

i could possibly board them at my sisters but i think they are probably better off in the tank that they are already in, as my sister has mutant fish in her tank
zebra danio looks more like an s and she just stripped down and redid her tank and didnt use dechlorinator so it is probably worse than my water at the moment

and my mum hasnt changed her water in over a year she cant remember when she did it last

why when my family manage (albeit my sister has mutant fish) can i not even start off on a good foot i think i see my tank as a new baby and they see theres as an auntie they might see at weddings and funerals but theirs are fine and mine are dead or dying possibly

i dont want to lose my fish if they survive

so i may have to get a couple of new fish once the whitespot has disappeared
so then what fish will do well if not ok in a new tank set up that will go on to live in a community tank

if they do not survive then i am going fishless cycling
if i can find the ammonia
but i will not put more fish through this or my children

has anybody had problems with their fish after fishless cycling
other than usual problems
i guess what i am asking is ?is it foolproof if done correctly

 

[Swimfins]

I set up my tank, let it run, added the dechlorinator and the plants as the salesman advised me. I went back to the store 2 days later and picked out 2 mollies, 2 swordtail, and 4 platy. Well, you guessed it. Within 3 days, the mollies were dead, however, all the rest were ok. I flushed the dead ones, not knowing I could still get a store credit, if I brought back the bodies. I took a water sample with me. Verdict: High amonia. They sold me an amonia insert for my filter, which solved the problem. I bought a test kit.
High nitrites, so I added salt and waited. Finally the tank cycled and no more lost fish. The platys and swordtails survived and are thriving (babies and mothers, which were given away), and I have 2 male platys that I am keeping.


Hang in. If I can do it, you cetainly can.

If you have to start over, do it. Next time I will do a fishless cycle and save the fish a painful test. In the end it will work out.

 

[russjet]

i will hang in
no way i am gonna let my family succeed and i fail
just how i am going to succeed is the question at the moment
with how many dead fish on my conscience?

any suggestions for a fish that is indestructible and impervious to ammonia nitrite and stress that will live in a community tank (and i dont mean a plastic fish i think that would probably not die but the cycle wouldnt go very much further than it is now)

my mum suggested that my daily water changes could be stressing out the fish could this be true they certainly dont dart off in fear and just swim round the gravel vac as if it is part of the territory

 

[ArkyLady]

The stress from the daily water changes is far, far less than what would happen to them with toxic levels of ammonia and nitrite. My fish are usually completely unafraid of my hands or the gravel vac in their tank, I guess they get used to it. The only way a water change could really stress them out is if the new water had a different pH or temp (doesn't have to be exact, but close).

Zebra danios are hardy fish, that is probably why your sister has had good luck with them. A lot of people use them to cycle their tanks. But just because a fish can survive toxic levels of ammonia/nitrite doesn't mean it's a good idea to do that. The fish are still harmed by it.

Of course, right now you're somewhat stuck with the fish you have. I completely understand being attached to them. I'd just stay with what you're doing for now and let things settle down. If you lose the last two, then do a fishless cycle and get ready for new fish. If you don't lose these two and things settle down and get established, then just start adding new fish slowly. You really should have a quarantine tank for new fish to stay in before they are added to your healthy tank, but I know that's not always possible.

Fishless cycling isn't foolproof by any means. However, the chances of having problems are greatly reduced when you're adding fish to a fully cycled, established tank. Of course the fish could be diseased when you purchase them in which case you'd still have that to deal with. However, fish who aren't over stressed from toxic water are much stronger and able to fight off/recover from diseases better.

Hang in there

 

[russjet]

and then there was one :sad
you know i have this feeling that i will be stuck with one little fish and if he survives then i really will be stuck with fishy cycling because i am really hanging on him surviving and would not want to part with him.

but apparently i can get bio spira shipped to me in uk thank the great climate for being so rubbish that the bacteria would be more likely to survive the trip so i think i will send for some to be on safe side and if nemo as he is now known (half were coral and half marlin) the sole survivor is nemo says my four year old.

if nemo does decide fishy heaven is better than a lonely life then i can use the biospira to jumpstart the fishless cycle cant I?

if he lives it should help him out anyway

 

[Milky]

Id get 5 more neons quick
keep them in shoals it makes
there chances of survival better
plus it gives em someone to pass
on the knowledge to.. Seriously
whenever id have neons i would
always loose like at lease half
so id buy the amount that i lost
just keep buying em untill you get
to the batch that understands your
doing your best for them eventually
youll get a group that is going to survive thegroup that
i have now are almost a year old now ...

12 neons
3 albino neons
3 black phantoms
10 glowlight tetra

 

[russjet]

just got to wait till the white spot is totally clear in the tank he has one on his tail fin and one on the top fin so if he makes it then i will need to wait a few days after that at least to make sure he stays happy

anybody know what time scale i am looking at he is still swimming around probably searching for his friends :sad

if he makes it how long after spots go can i get more fish

if he doesnt make it then can i fishless cycle with biospira just to be more sure that the cycle has happened

would it be a case of just feeding the water ammonia till i know for sure that it is established.or do i need to add fish with it.

because it has to come from america i am expecting its potency to be reduced so have ordered enough to do three tanks my size so i think we may get enough for my tank and some for sons just to be on the safe side.

thanks all for your thoughts advice and encouragement.