Ember tetras dying

Winged

Likes being a biology major.
Jan 11, 2009
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Louisville, KY
I'm having an awful week fish-wise. An ich outbreak in my 45, and now my embers dying for no reason that I can tell. :(

A couple days ago, I switched most of my substrate in my 20 gallon from gravel to Flourite, moving the fish out while I did this. While I was doing this, I discovered an ember tetra dead under a plant. I didn't think too much of it, after all, everybody loses a fish once in a while, right? I continued with the substrate change and added some new plants, then put my fish back in the tank, allowing them to float to get the temperatures right for them.

Then, tonight while I was feeding, I found an ember floating. I looked at the fish swimming and counted three ember tetras out of what should've been eight. I started searching and found three more dead ones and a fourth live one. This fourth one I don't think is going to make it. He's not schooling with the rest, is mostly hiding, and has white, stringy poop (which I know means something and I cannot for the life of me remember what). Of the four remaining ones, only one has bright colour. I can see no visible symptoms, and didn't notice any in the ones that died, other than paled colour, which I assumed was from being stressed while I was doing stuff to the tank the other day.

I tested the water using an API test kit. Ammonia is at .25, nitrite is at .25, nitrate is at 20, pH is at 7.6. I've had this tank set up for about a month, and before then it was a ten gallon that had been set up for several months. The ammonia and nitrite spikes could be caused by the substrate move and replacing the filter a week ago. When I put the new substrate in, I kept most of the old gravel in the tank in mesh bags. When I switched filters, I moved what filter media I could to the new filter. The ammonia has spiked in this tank before for other reasons (such as when I moved from a ten gallon to a 20), never with any adverse effects. I've never seen a nitrite spike in it though. I assume that the ammonia spike could also be from the dead fish being in the tank; I don't know how long they were dead in there today as I've not been home much today.

Also in the tank are nine pygmy cories and a sparkling gourami. This tank has its own net, so no cross-contamination with the ich-ridden tank. I added three embers last week after they were quarantined and two pygmy cories (no QT on these because I had no reason to doubt their health and still don't).

Anybody have any ideas of what's wrong with my embers? These are my favourite fish and the ones that really got me into this hobby. It's really hard seeing them go. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :help:
 
Also, up until tonight they were eating fine. Tonight, though, they didn't eat as well as they normally do, but they did eat.

The sparkling gourami and pygmy cories seem to be fine.
 
I'm so sorry for your losses. I don't know what's going on. I'm not as experienced as most of the AC members, but I'm sure someone will come along to help.

I just wanted to say I'm sorry, I wish I could help, and I hope things get better and you don't have more losses.

I think embers are beautiful, and I can't seem to find any, anywhere.
 
The ammonia and nitrite spike are signs that you are having a mini-cycle. You mentioned you switched your gravel out for Flourite. This is the likely cause of the mini-cycle. Other than the filter, substrate holds a large percentage of nitrifying bacteria.
 
Classic chicken or the egg.... did you have a mini-cycle that caused the ammonia/nitrite spike OR did the dead fish cause the levels to increase beyond the capability of the biofilter? Regardless, long white stringy trailing feces is a sign of illness (generally parasitic or bacterial). It sounds like you have some ill specimens (hiding, pale, not eating, lethargic, etc.) The best course of action at this time is to now perform daily water changes in an effort to assist remaining stock fight off any active infection. Temp matched and water conditioned of course. Keep us updated... if you see improvement with the upped water change regimen continue with it and cross your fingers to be out of the woods. If health continues to decline over the next 24-36 hours, treating affected specimens empirically for a bacterial/protozoal ingection may be necessary. Do you have a hospital tank you could use?
 
The ammonia and nitrite spike are signs that you are having a mini-cycle. You mentioned you switched your gravel out for Flourite. This is the likely cause of the mini-cycle. Other than the filter, substrate holds a large percentage of nitrifying bacteria.

Beat me to it! This was what I was thinking.

Classic chicken or the egg.... did you have a mini-cycle that caused the ammonia/nitrite spike OR did the dead fish cause the levels to increase beyond the capability of the biofilter? Regardless, long white stringy trailing feces is a sign of illness (generally parasitic or bacterial). It sounds like you have some ill specimens (hiding, pale, not eating, lethargic, etc.) The best course of action at this time is to now perform daily water changes in an effort to assist remaining stock fight off any active infection. Temp matched and water conditioned of course. Keep us updated... if you see improvement with the upped water change regimen continue with it and cross your fingers to be out of the woods. If health continues to decline over the next 24-36 hours, treating affected specimens empirically for a bacterial/protozoal ingection may be necessary. Do you have a hospital tank you could use?

I agree! Keep water changes up. Are you dosing any meds? (melafix, pimafix, etc...) if so, I would recommend removing the carbon filter (if you're using one) until the disease clears up.

Sorry for your loss! :(
 
I'm so sorry for your losses. I don't know what's going on. I'm not as experienced as most of the AC members, but I'm sure someone will come along to help.

I just wanted to say I'm sorry, I wish I could help, and I hope things get better and you don't have more losses.

I think embers are beautiful, and I can't seem to find any, anywhere.

Thanks for your condolences, Melody. I had trouble finding them, too. I bought my first six about nine months ago at the Petsmart where I work after they went on clearance. I've spent the past six months looking for more. I finally found a store in Indiana that carried them.

The ammonia and nitrite spike are signs that you are having a mini-cycle. You mentioned you switched your gravel out for Flourite. This is the likely cause of the mini-cycle. Other than the filter, substrate holds a large percentage of nitrifying bacteria.

I know it's a mini-cycle, but I, like DrVader, don't know if it's caused by the partial substrate switch or the dead fish.

Classic chicken or the egg.... did you have a mini-cycle that caused the ammonia/nitrite spike OR did the dead fish cause the levels to increase beyond the capability of the biofilter? Regardless, long white stringy trailing feces is a sign of illness (generally parasitic or bacterial). It sounds like you have some ill specimens (hiding, pale, not eating, lethargic, etc.) The best course of action at this time is to now perform daily water changes in an effort to assist remaining stock fight off any active infection. Temp matched and water conditioned of course. Keep us updated... if you see improvement with the upped water change regimen continue with it and cross your fingers to be out of the woods. If health continues to decline over the next 24-36 hours, treating affected specimens empirically for a bacterial/protozoal ingection may be necessary. Do you have a hospital tank you could use?

Thanks for the info, DrVader. I think it may be a combination of the tank going through a mini-cycle and the dead fish. Perhaps the mini-cycle wouldn't have been as noticeable if there hadn't been dead fish? I do have a hospital tank I can use, though I'll have to play musical fish to clear it out (an injured guppy is in there and I've yet to move her back out). If it's a parasite or bacteria, why is it only affecting the embers? Are they more susceptible to illnesses than the other fish in that tank? I'll start doing water changes today. How big of a water change should I do? I usually do 25% on this tank weekly. Will 25% daily be enough, or should I do more?

Thanks for your help, everyone. I can't find the fourth one today, either dead or alive. Last night, that one was hiding way more than the others and not schooling. For that reason, I'm thinking it's probably dead and I just can't find it. On a more positive note, my rummynose tetras in my 45 with ich are looking much better.
 
Beat me to it! This was what I was thinking.



I agree! Keep water changes up. Are you dosing any meds? (melafix, pimafix, etc...) if so, I would recommend removing the carbon filter (if you're using one) until the disease clears up.

Sorry for your loss! :(

I'm not dosing any meds. I don't have any as I've never really had to deal with any illnesses until this week, only injuries. I prefer using more natural remedies if I can. If I need to go get meds, it won't be a problem.
 
Sorry for your losses! I lover my embers and would be heartbroken to lose them!
 
I did a 30% water change and found the fourth ember. It was dead as I suspected.

The remaining three are all schooling. Two of them are pretty pale and the third is starting to get that way.
 
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