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Feeder Goldfish Nutrition

Discussion in 'General Cold & Temperate Water' started by MeAirlinePilot, Dec 28, 2003.

  1. MeAirlinePilot

    MeAirlinePilot AC Members

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    I've learned that feeder goldfish contain no nutritional value what-so-ever. I work at PetsMart and have totally turned the aquatics department around because of all the information I have learned from this board over the past years. I turn people away from feeders because so many contain diseases and it's not worth the chance of passing diseases onto our fish. I've also heard that feeders are almost completely fat, and contain no protein or vitamins/minerals that our fish need in their diet. The problem is, my manager over heard me telling this to a customer, and wrote our district manager, who in turn replied saying that I am totally wrong. He told my manager that feeder goldfish are imperative to a fish's diet because they are a great source of protein and calcium. I know this isn't true, but I need evidence to show my manager. I got a note put into my file saying I keep telling customers wrong information. My manager is extremely nice, and is willing to remove this from my file and leave me a better review if I can provide evidence that goldfish don't have nutritional value. Can anyone please help me by providing some sort of a goldfish's breakdown of nutritional value? Or some sort of a link to a website giving the facts? What is everyone's opinion on this issue? Thank you so much! ~Bryson
     
  2. ewok

    ewok Senile Member

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    not many petsmarts around here. most places here don't seem like they care if they give you bad information, as long as they make the sale. ;)

    old myths die hard too.......

    so lets see if we can find enuf research to get you off the hook. i've read plenty about it, but never actually "searched" for it.

    ahhhhhhhh...... i found the petsmart company stance: http://www.petsmart.com/articles/article_138.shtml no help, but interesting.

    not exactly great help, but a beginning...
    http://www.sydneycichlid.com/foodfaq.html

    this is getting better......
    http://www.wetwebmedia.com/goldfshfd.htm

    a good one that pertains to marine fish and freshwater feeders. http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen6.html

    it hits on the topic, but sort of misses http://www.cichliddepot.com/diseases/hith.html

    sort of iffy at best http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/fishforumdisease/

    can't copy/paste, look under "hole in the head"

    a little help, still haven't found anything scientific. http://kingsoftheaquarium.tripod.com/blackarowana.htm

     
  3. ewok

    ewok Senile Member

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    continued........ i wasn't sure what post length i could get away with

    still looking........

    another vague reference........ http://www.****************/pages/submitted_feedback_page_17.htm

    another "iffy" link...... http://groups.msn.com/BTFTropicalFishkeeping/oscars1.msnw

    more iffy....... http://honors.montana.edu/~weif/firsttank/food.phtml

    a partial repeat, another page from a previous website. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/bizfdsretail.htm

    regarding turtles..... http://hometown.aol.com/Mite37/AquaticTurtles.htm

    regarding other reptiles..... http://forum.kingsnake.com/gator/messages/18164.html

    another 1/2way decent link. http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/other/astronotus_ocellatus.htm


    an excellent link discussing good nutrition and reasons for doing it. http://www.petngarden.com/fish/index.html
     
  4. Cearbhaill

    Cearbhaill Reads the Gribble Report

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    Bob Fenner in "The Conscientous Marine Aquarist" mentions that feeding goldfish can lead to fatty liver degeneration and gut impaction.

    I just read a description of autopsies done on goldfish fed fish, and the goldfish skulls had accumulated within the digestive tract causing impaction and death. The skulls are made of huge and dense bone that just doesn't digest well.
    I want to recall that the article was indeed about Oscars- it would have been either TFH or FAMA magazine. If I can remember where I read it I'll tell you.
     
  5. ewok

    ewok Senile Member

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    i've had enuf digging for the night, unfortunately i was unable to find anything specifically scientific saying "don't do this". maybe one of the older folks will have a link handy.

    the general concensus and bulk of the information out there agrees on several issues that can be basically taken as fact tho.

    #1 feeder fish in general contain nowhere near the "right" nutritional values as compared to a good quality food, especially one designed for the fish.
    #2 all fish require a varied diet to stay healthy, and feeder fish alone won't provide that. not feeding a varied diet can lead to disease or death.
    #3 the risk involved in ANY feeder fish (disease/parasite/etc) *not* bred by you (the person that owns the fish) outweighs any chance of a dubious benefit.
    #4 feeding live fish is somewhat accepted as raising the aggression levels of the fish being fed it, and furthermore can cause that fish to consider any other fish in the tank with it as a possible food source.
    #5 feeder golds can lead to possible fat problems with fresh or saltwater carnivores.
    #6 there are possible thiamase/thiamine problems linked to feeder fish or specifically goldfish.

    the general attitude amongst most aquarists writing these things is that live feeders are bad or at least not worth doing and this is without touching on moral or ethical issues.

    there might be a few other points i'm missing atm, sort of tired. ;)

    hopefully this helps or someone else has better references than i could find by skimming.

    good luck
     
  6. Gulp

    Gulp Nom, nom, nom.

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    Ewok was quite busy last night. :D Thanks for all those links. They gave me some good reading this morning. Even if they don't help Bryson, they helped me.
     
  7. MeAirlinePilot

    MeAirlinePilot AC Members

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    WOW THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! :D I can't tell you how appreciative I am for you searching for all those links! I have printed out all the information and will take it to work today. I have always heard of all those points being made here on AC, but I have never seen links with the "hard facts." I guess what I am really looking for is something by a Ph.D. or some sort of Animal Expert talking about why not to use feeders, but this is just fine. Thank you again Ewok SOOO much for your hard work! ~Bryson
     
  8. Wippit Guud

    Wippit Guud ///\\oo//\\\

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    You can mention to him that it's not like telling this to customers will stop their sale - after all, some people simply want to see a little fish on fish aggression - this is just to prevent people from wasting money on using them as a food source.
     
  9. avoxo

    avoxo FORE!!!!!!!!!!!

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    What it comes down to is the almighty buck. My guess would be that selling feeders makes them a good amount of profit and telling customers that there is no benefit to feeding them will cause a loss of sales or profit. I once had a chance to see the back room of a major pet franchise and saw all the extra containers that they use to store the feeders but yet they were always out of them in a couple of days.

    I think that it is great that you are willing to properly inform people about feeders because most place are just trying to make a sale or just tell them the customer bad information. I applaud your efforts but in the long run you will be the one losing out.
     
  10. ewok

    ewok Senile Member

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    i'm not sure i would agree with that. how many actually get sold? i have seen HUGE turnover rates in deaths in the feeder tanks. i would suspect only 50% or so ever make it to being sold and it takes alot of room to "inventory" them.

    new and improved corporate thinking would be to stock that space with a decent quality canned food and expect people to overfeed. then they can also push chemicals and extra filters and such........

    i would have to think any pet stores biggest profits from fish related sales would have to come from selling the crap chemicals no one actually needs. i think the stores only stock feeders to keep you interested thru the "killing" thing. i had it mentioned to me that almost any store only stocked fish to keep people interested in the hobby, they are actually a bad investment. if *you* couldn't find fish, you wouldn't be interested in purchasing the big ticket items they like to sell. bigger tanks, the newer fancier filters, and i know chemicals are a killer. when i was a noob i spent literally hundreds of dollars buying all the newest chemicals because i thought i needed them.......... :rolleyes:

    another misconception the pet stores like to "feed" on. the kid wants a fish, so lets sell him/her a 12 cent feeder or two. then they have an additional $20 in sales *at least* to buy supplies like a tank or bowl to keep it in. to everyone involved the fish is disposable, if it gets the person hooked, great! we have more sales. if it dies, no one worries and we still sold $20 worth of supplies and the "feeders" are cheap enuf that maybe he/she will come back to buy another to try it again.

    sounds pretty win/win to me. of course i'm sort of a cynic tho. but if it wasn't for those 12 cent feeder fish, how many people wouldn't be in the hobby?

    not to rant or rave, just a different slant on the thinking.........
     

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