First Post...Couple of Questions

K

kpytlik

Registered Member
Nov 3, 2005
3
0
0
Hello,

I have kept a 29 gallon aquarium for just over a year, and rarely encountered anything so much as a hiccup. Recently, I tried adding some clown loaches, and lost everything in my tank, save 2 Dwarf Gourami, 1 Zebra Danio, and a SAE, to Ich. In addition, a massive (what I think was) Hydra outbreak occured, and one of the Gouramis now has pop or cloud eye (secondary infection from ich, I am sure).

After battling this in the main tank (raised temp, added salt, tried quick cure and copper safe, removed carbon, etc.) for a few weeks and LOSING, I went and got a 10g kit, set it up, moved the remaining fish to that, and nuked the tank (about 4 days of bleaching, scrubbing, and, most of all, rinsing).

I now have the 29g set back up, but the fish remain in the 10g. It will soon require a lot of attention and TLC to prevent any deaths while it cycles. I am OK with that. I did have a few questions, though:

1. There was a post the other day about attaching the backgrounds on the tank with a link to an article about it. In that article, it said to put 2 - 3 inches of gravel in your tank. I had always read that the less gravel the better. When I set the tank back up, I left out a lot of the gravel, using really only what was necessary to cover the bottom and hold down any decorations, and it looks really good, actually. I am guessing that part of the hydra outbreak was due to my "deep gravel" vacuuming job when I was fighting off the ich. It stirred up a LOT of crap that had settled way down in there, thus creating. Is there any rule of thumb for the amount of gravel to use?

2. I plan on doing a fishless cycle in the 29g. Mostly, because I am a little leery of any residual clorox that would be harmful. Does anyone know what concentration of ammonia is in the "Great Value" brand Clear Ammonia at Wal Mart? I have heard anything from 4 - 20%. I am just trying to get a good idea of what it'll take to get it up to 5ppm. My best guess is... 5/1000000 x 29 (gallons) ~ 1/10 of a teaspoon, but that's at 100% ammonia. If it's only 20%, I would need 5 times that. Does anyone know how diluted the stuff is?

3. If I do not have any live plants in the tank, how long do I really need the lights to be on? I've seen anywhere from 10-14. I am a little worried about the 10g. The kit came with incadescent lights, but I replaced them with the screw-in flourescents, and MAN, they are BRIGHT. I tried only using one of them, but it looked a bit funny.

4. Any idea why my 2 Gouramis and the Zebra Danio would never get the ich? So many of my fish got it, but these never did. No spots, ever. The zebra was the last of his little school I put in there when I first got the tank a while back. For whatever reason, they don't like to eat with some of the other fish around, so they sort of shrivel up and die (sad, I know). Anyway, do some fish have a higher resistance to it? Anything tetra-related got it almost immediately and died. The clown loaches, two of whom brought it in, got it real bad and died right away.

5. If I can get the fish I put in the 10g to live through the cycle, would they be happy in there on a permanant basis? I may just leave them. I need to start medicating the one with pop/cloud eye again, but am scared I'll ruin the cycling process. Any ideas?

Thanks for reading. I'm sorry it got a little long winded. Nice forum, btw...
 
How much gravel?

Sorry for your troubles. Every now and then, no matter how careful, troubles happen.

If you are not going to have live plants the only purpose of gravel is for decoration. Just use what looks good. Why waste space if you are not going to try live plants.

Good luck with the fishless cycle. Personally, I'd go with Bio-Spira.
 
My two cents:

1- If you have live plants, you'll need deep gravel. If not, gravel is decoration. Also, depending of the fish you have you'll need more or less gravel to hold plastic plants. IO have a 5" goldfish that uproots everything is plant (plastic too) in a 3" deep gravel sustrate. Hidra can't appear for the gravel. I has to be introduced my any mean (fish or plant) that carried it.

2- For clorox residue, wash the tank several times and for the last wash, use a declohrinator and leave it there for an hour to get rid of the clorhine. For ammania concentration, don't take risks and buy a test kit with ammonia and nitrite tests. This way, you'll not be guessing, and you'll be able to tell when your tank has completely cycled.

3- Lights. Research on the specific fishes you are keeping. Some like more light than others in terms of time and intensity. I'm sure a lot of people here know more on lighting than I do.

4- Resistance ot disease is different from any individual fish to the other, just like humans. Think of an epidemic disease: not everyone dies. Keeping a good water quality and diet according to your specific fish will raise its resistance. On the other size, stressful conditions, fouly water will render them weak and prone to infections.

5- Do the fishless cycle in the 29 gallon. Until completed, don't put anu fish in there. For medicating, I always choose an isolation tank, since I don't like to treat fishes that are not sick. I believe a 5 gallon will be enough for a single gourami to be trated. Anything can work as a tank, as long as it's clean. Remember to keep a high water quality to help the healing procces.


Hope this helps. I'm no expert but, to my undertanding, all this is good advice. Wait for some other people here give their opinion and procced.
Do some internet research too.

Good luck, and happy fish keeping.
 
gravel is a personal preference. if you want to deal with deep cleaning it, feel free to put a lot in. i stick to about 1/2 inch, enough to just be visible above the black part of the tank. a hint for cleaning it - i have a HOB filter with an intake tube that sticks really far down into the tank. i take off the strainer part and put it over the end of the tubing i use to do water changes. stick it into the gravel and it gets all the poop without taking out the rocks.

to get rid of the bleach, fill and empty the tank a couple times using a *lot* of dechlorinator in the water. that should neutralize it. make sure there's no bleach smell, then do it again. ammonias are all different concentrations. i'd start out with about 1/8 or 1/10 tsp, swish it around, and test after an hour or so once the ammonia has had time to distribute throughout the tank.

fish appreciate having a daily light cycle, but you don't need lights on at all during a fishless cycle. it'll just cause a huge algae bloom. get some plastic plants, a viney-looking kind, and take the base off, them float them at the top of the tank. it should cut down on the light a good amount so that the fish are happy, and you can still see them.

don't know why some fish die and some don't, but i do know that clowns are very susceptible to ich and they almost always get it after they are moved. a good reason to use a quarantine tank in the future.

for a few months they will probably be fine in that tank. exceptions - if the gouramis start to fight you'll need to move them to the bigger tank, and the SAE may grow too big for the tank. i know the Chinese algae eaters get 5-6 inches, i think the SAE's get big too, just not aggressive like the CAE's.
 
Good luck with the fishless cycle. Personally, I'd go with Bio-Spira.
Click to expand...
I'd reccomend bio-spira for your fishless cycle as well. Hopefully you can find a good batch as it does wonders for speeding up the fishless cycle. You could also use some in the 10 to help it along with the fishy cycle.

Any idea why my 2 Gouramis and the Zebra Danio would never get the ich? So many of my fish got it, but these never did. No spots, ever. The zebra was the last of his little school I put in there when I first got the tank a while back. For whatever reason, they don't like to eat with some of the other fish around, so they sort of shrivel up and die (sad, I know). Anyway, do some fish have a higher resistance to it? Anything tetra-related got it almost immediately and died. The clown loaches, two of whom brought it in, got it real bad and died right away.
Click to expand...

Some fish do have a higher resistance than others, and additionally most fish will develop an immune response that increases their resistance after exposure. I would not be suprised if one of the fish that never showed visible spots wasn't the original carrier. Ich hides very well in the gills, that is how it survives undetected for months in a tank. Did you happen to go back to the source of the loaches and see if any of the fish in their original tank had ich? It does not really matter, but it is always nice to know.

dave
 
Thanks for the advice so far. Thankfully, I am already doing most of it. Tonight I noticed the other Gourami has popeye as well. So, I feel OK medicating that whole tank now.

I tested the 29g for chlorine and there is none. I even kept adding more checmical and it never turned colors. I guess running it for a day outside with 3x of chlorinator and rinsing again did the trick.

I've got timers on both lights...I am just not sure how long to set them. They are both at 14 hours now, but that seems long for not having any live plants.

I've got an ammonia and nitrate/nitrite test kit ready to go. I was just hoping somebody knew the strength of the "Great Value" Clear Ammonia they sell at Wal Mart. One would think it'd be printed on the bottle, but alas, it is not. :(

My wife an I just got back from the store with some fake plants and some decor for the 10g tank. All I had in there was gravel, and the gouramis would flip out every time you walk in the room. They are awfully shy. Are they all like that?

daveedka, I did go back to the store where I got the loaches, and go figure, they were all gone. This was maybe two days after I got them, and they had a bunch of them. So, either they all died or got sold. I am positive this is where the ich came from, as the two I got were completely covered in it the very next morning.

wataugachicken, that is an interesting name...watauga, TX?

Thanks again for the responses.
 
watauga county, NC
 
Ahh, I see. The suburb just south of me is Watauga, TX. Would have been some coincidence!
 
As far as your question about ammonia concentration goes, I read somewhere that the best way to figure out how much to put in to your tank is to work with a 1 gallon container. Add enough ammonia to the 1 gallon container to get to your desired ppm reading (between 3-5 ppm for fishless cycling, I think?). Once you know how much to add to 1 gallon, you can multiply by your tank size (29 in your case) to figure out how much ammonia to add to your tank to get the desired concentration. Sounds like a good approach, since it's easier to dump out 1 gallon and start over than it is to dump out 29 gallon!
 
shawn in bakers

hi, it has been my experience that in a perfectly healthy tank, thier is usually ich present: However, unless somesort of stressfull situation occures the ich seems to lay dormant (even for years), then something like a water change with to cool water, lowers the fishes resistance and whamo, you have ich. I am surprised you were not able to control with quickcure, I personally have never had that happen. As far as to the reason your gourami's to not come down with it, could be they just never got stressed out enough to allow the ich to gain a foot hold. I keep many different tanks, many of which are planted, (so quickcure or copper are out of the question)so I employ the tried and true method, the quarantine tank, all new arrivals (including) plants spend about a month in a quarantine tank to prevent any disease from being introduced to the tank. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but as for your fish with popeye, well, you could try to releive the bubble behind the fishes Eye using a syringe, but I don't personally recomend it, try raising the water temp, to about 84, antibiotics and tlc, otherwise, their is not much hope for your qourami. shawn p.s. small scale fishes can only handle quick cure at 1/2 stregth, so in those cases use it twice as long.
kpytlik said:
Hello,

I have kept a 29 gallon aquarium for just over a year, and rarely encountered anything so much as a hiccup. Recently, I tried adding some clown loaches, and lost everything in my tank, save 2 Dwarf Gourami, 1 Zebra Danio, and a SAE, to Ich. In addition, a massive (what I think was) Hydra outbreak occured, and one of the Gouramis now has pop or cloud eye (secondary infection from ich, I am sure).

After battling this in the main tank (raised temp, added salt, tried quick cure and copper safe, removed carbon, etc.) for a few weeks and LOSING, I went and got a 10g kit, set it up, moved the remaining fish to that, and nuked the tank (about 4 days of bleaching, scrubbing, and, most of all, rinsing).

I now have the 29g set back up, but the fish remain in the 10g. It will soon require a lot of attention and TLC to prevent any deaths while it cycles. I am OK with that. I did have a few questions, though:

1. There was a post the other day about attaching the backgrounds on the tank with a link to an article about it. In that article, it said to put 2 - 3 inches of gravel in your tank. I had always read that the less gravel the better. When I set the tank back up, I left out a lot of the gravel, using really only what was necessary to cover the bottom and hold down any decorations, and it looks really good, actually. I am guessing that part of the hydra outbreak was due to my "deep gravel" vacuuming job when I was fighting off the ich. It stirred up a LOT of crap that had settled way down in there, thus creating. Is there any rule of thumb for the amount of gravel to use?

2. I plan on doing a fishless cycle in the 29g. Mostly, because I am a little leery of any residual clorox that would be harmful. Does anyone know what concentration of ammonia is in the "Great Value" brand Clear Ammonia at Wal Mart? I have heard anything from 4 - 20%. I am just trying to get a good idea of what it'll take to get it up to 5ppm. My best guess is... 5/1000000 x 29 (gallons) ~ 1/10 of a teaspoon, but that's at 100% ammonia. If it's only 20%, I would need 5 times that. Does anyone know how diluted the stuff is?

3. If I do not have any live plants in the tank, how long do I really need the lights to be on? I've seen anywhere from 10-14. I am a little worried about the 10g. The kit came with incadescent lights, but I replaced them with the screw-in flourescents, and MAN, they are BRIGHT. I tried only using one of them, but it looked a bit funny.

4. Any idea why my 2 Gouramis and the Zebra Danio would never get the ich? So many of my fish got it, but these never did. No spots, ever. The zebra was the last of his little school I put in there when I first got the tank a while back. For whatever reason, they don't like to eat with some of the other fish around, so they sort of shrivel up and die (sad, I know). Anyway, do some fish have a higher resistance to it? Anything tetra-related got it almost immediately and died. The clown loaches, two of whom brought it in, got it real bad and died right away.

5. If I can get the fish I put in the 10g to live through the cycle, would they be happy in there on a permanant basis? I may just leave them. I need to start medicating the one with pop/cloud eye again, but am scared I'll ruin the cycling process. Any ideas?

Thanks for reading. I'm sorry it got a little long winded. Nice forum, btw...
Click to expand...
 
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