Fish and water reptiles?

[Deja_Vu]

Alright, if you've read my other post about setting up my aquarium, then you already know that I have a 40g tank that is going to be changed to a freshwater.

Now, my big question is: can I put a ledge in my tank that is above water so that I can have a reptile, prefferably a small turtle or newt? I was looking in a magazine I purchased at PetSmart, and there was a really neat aquascape that allowed for a more pond-like feel. It had fish in water that went a little over halfway up the tank, and about 1/3 of the tank was above ground. Could my fish live in safety with a turtle/newt, or would I have to seperate them somehow, so I could have both in one tank?

Basicly, I'm asking if its possible, and if anyone has experience with anything like this, and if so, how did it work out, and how would I go about putting it together? And how did the fish and the reptiles/amphibians get along?

Also--if thats not possible, then could I make a normal planted freshwater tank with a turtle in it, but buy like a "turtle dock" instead of having a terrestrial area?

 

[Ghostshrimp55]

I'd go one or the other, if I were you. Turtles like fish. Not to look at, but to eat. They are also extremely messy, requiring more tank maintenance than fish. Plus, they are just dirty, acting as a vector for all kinds of things that you don't want on or in your body.

Typically, a turtle tank will only have about 10 inches or less of water in it and some kind of platform for the turtles to come up onto. You could have a pile of rocks on one side of the tank that comes up out of the water or you could use a big chunky piece of driftwood. I'm not sure how well a floating platform would work for a turtle since they're kind of clumsy and not the best of climbers but, people use them so the might be a valid option.

I'd be concerned about putting one in a planted tank, though. Like I said, they're clumsy. Unless you want to do constant aquascaping, I'd keep the turtle out of the planted tank.

Newts are amphibians and are not totally aquatic. They may prefer to be able to go in and out of the water as they please. I'm sure you could keep them with some fish. Just be sure that the newt can't fit any of them in its mouth or it will try to catch them.

Hope this helps.

 

[OrionGirl]

Agree. Turtles and fish are not a good mix, though you will hear of people that have a turtle that has ignored fish for a few months--in the end, though, the fish will likely suffer from the elevated waste levels even if it isn't eaten.

Newts can be hit or miss. Small fish may be eaten, larger fish may pick on the newts, and some newts are toxic, which usually requires running carbon (replaced frequently) to prevent it from building up in the water. Some newts spend a lot of time in the water, some seldom venture in, meaning it's hard to provide for adeqaute space without knowing in advance which yours will prefer. Feeding newts with fish around can also be a problem, since newts are sometimes slow feeders and a fast fish will out-compete them for food. All in all, JMO, but it's best to have just fish, just turtles, or just amphibians.

 

[RockabillyChick]

just research if you do go with a turtle. Red ear sliders need a VERY large tank, 40 gallons would NOT be enough for even one red ear slider. look for other, smaller species of turtles if you really want one.

 

[Deja_Vu]

I've had turtles before, but never with fish, I'd just read about it somewhere and thought it would be neat. But I do agree, turtles are clumsy(first hand experiance >> that **** turtle couldn't walk a straight line).

Thanks for the help, if I did choose to go with putting in a newt or something, I have a divider that I could put in so he'd have some water to swim in, but he wouldn't be with the fish, just for safety reasons. I'm deffinatly going to do some more research on the topic before I make a definate decision on which way to go.

Again, thank you, its much appreciated.

 

[tricksterpup]

IF you want to try a Biotope take a look at this tank setup.

Waters Edge BIO-Habitat
* The ultimate terrarium kit - everything's included!
* Eclipse 3-stage filtration provides optimal water quality
* Ideal for turtles, frogs, toads, newts and salamanders

Our most complete terrarium system with everything you need to create a thriving biotope! Curved, 28-gallon glass aquarium features realistic stone and log backdrop constructed of molded resin. Dramatic waterfall feature maintains humidity and provides a unique water source.Tri-level ledges are ideal for live plants. Behind the scene and out of sight, you’ll find superior 3-stage BIO-Wheel filtration, high-performance water pump (79-153 gph), 18" T-8 fluorescent lighting, built-in intake/outlet screens, cord router, and hood clips. Circulation fan prevents condensation. Filter cartridge, water conditioner, and food included. UL-Listed.

Sanibal Stand combines a distinct upscale look with solid, dependable craftsmanship, beautiful hardwood and rattan and makes your terrarium display a furniture-like showpiece. Provide generous cabinet space with extra-large access doors and easy-open hinged utility panels. Available exclusively in fruitwood finish. Ready-to-assemble.

Waters Edge BIO-Habitat

Parts List
1 - Habitat Aquarium w/Backdrop
1 - Filter Cartridge
1 - Filter Cover
1 - Filter Housing
2 - Clip-On Filter Brackets
1 - Impeller Assembly
1 - BIO-Wheel
2 - BIO-Wheel Bearings
1 - Intake Tube
1 - Intake Tube Adapter
1 - Diffuser Assembly
1 - Pump Assembly
1 - Pump Bracket
4 - Suction Cups
1 - Back Plate
1 - Circulation Fan - 12 Volt Max.
1 - Fan Cover
1 - Transformer - 9 Volt
1 - Canopy
1 - Canopy Handle
2 - Canopy Securing Clips
1 - 24" Strip Light
1 - Cord Router
1 - Fancy Plant Vine (52")

Quick Setup Guide

1. Check to see that all parts are included in the kit.

2. Pump Assembly

* Attach suction cups to pump bracket.
* Slide pump bracket onto pump.
* Attach adapter to pump.
* Attach intake tube to adapter.
* Attach diffuser to intake tube.

3. Filtration Assembly

* Remove filter cover.
* Snap filter brackets onto aquarium frame.
* Slide filter housing onto filter brackets.
* Rinse filter cartridge and install (blue side up).
* Attach pump assembly to filter housing.
* Unwrap BIO-Wheel and install.

4. Fill Aquarium

* Add gravel (front compartment only), vine (included), and other décor.
* Add water.
* NOTE: Recommended water level: 4-1/2"-5" (approx. 8 gallons). Water should be room temperature or warmer.
* Add (optional) heater behind rock backdrop.
* Replace filter cover.

5. Final Steps

* Install back plate and glass canopy (slide into place).
* Connect fan cover to circulation fan. Arrow on side panel should point down.
* Snap fan into back plate.
* Place light strip on aquarium.
* Attach cord router, route cords.
* To start your system, plug it in.
IMPORTANT: When system is on, make sure air circulation fan is blowing down into aquarium. Safeguard pets with canopy securing clips.

Handle Application Instructions
Important: Once adhered to the canopy, the handle cannot be repositioned. After adhering handle to the glass canopy, avoid using it for the first 12 hours to allow the tape to bond with the glass. Always keep this area dry.
1. Position Handle - Center the handle from the front edge of the canopy.

2. Affix Handle - Make sure the glass surface is clean and dry. Remove protective tape from bottom of handle and gently press onto canopy in the proper position.

Troubleshooting Guidelines
: Symptom Comments/Solution

If your pump fails to pump water or flow has slowed:
* Make certain the outlet has power and is functioning properly by first unplugging electrical cord momentarily, then reconnecting to power source to restart the impeller.
* Make sure pump is installed correctly (below water level).
* Inspect water level. Maintain at approx. 4-1/2"-5".
* Clean inside of tank tube with flexible filter brush.

If your pump makes excessive mechanical noise:
* Make sure pump is installed correctly (below water level).
* Remove impeller assembly and make sure the impeller is free to rotate.
* Make sure suction cups are properly installed on pump bracket and that all four are suctioning.
* Replace worn impeller assembly.
If water does not exit from waterfall:
* Make sure pump is operating.
* Check position of filter housing. It should line up with backdrop weir.
* Check for crack in intake tube. Replace if defective.
If glass gets foggy:
* Check circulation fan for obstruction or malfunction.
If BIO-Wheel fails to move or stops:
* Irregular rotation, including brief pauses, is normal.
* Inspect BIO-Wheel bearings and axle for dirt or mineral deposits. If evident, clean these areas carefully.
* Make sure all parts are installed properly and that nothing is blocking BIO-Wheel rotation.
* Examine intake tube for flow obstruction.
* Perform regular filter maintenance.
If your BIO-Wheel becomes discolored or dirty:
* This is not a problem. It indicates beneficial biological bacterial growth, which removes toxic ammonia and nitrate from water. DO NOT attempt to clean BIO-Wheel pleats.
* As long as a BIO-Wheel is not damaged, it does not need to be replaced.

This tank is at Fosters and Smiths for about $250.

 

[Cornflakegrl]

Typically, a turtle tank will only have about 10 inches or less of water in it and some kind of platform for the turtles to come up onto.

BULL. I don't know of a single grown turtle that could live in 10 inches of water. Obviously you've never owned/properly taken care of an aquatic turtle.
Anywhom, if you absoutely must combine amphibians and fish: I have had no trouble with fire belly newts and guppies. This is not to say they won't eat other fish (or even gups). I'm sure if they encountered a long finned fish that was slow enough, they would catch it and eat it. Still, I've kept this species for over 5 years and haven't had a problem.
However, my *much* larger Taricha Torosa newts readily hunt guppies so I keep them in their tank as a food source. If you do opt to get FBN, it is imperative that they have an easily accessible land area. I've had some FBNs that were totally aquatic and never touched the land, some that were totally terriestrial and never touched the water, but the majority have been partially aquatic, partially terrestrial. And like the other poster said, it is important to have adequate filtration to prevent build-up of the toxins FBNs excrete. Anywhom, I dig my FBN/gup tank. FBNs are friendly little guys and they quickly warm up to you.
African Dwarf Frogs, not African CLAWED frogs, MIGHT do ok with some fish.
Like Ghost said, turts do like to eat fishies. My RES's have gone for multiple months without eating their companions and then suddenly switch to having a buffet of their finned friends.
Hope this helps.
Vanessa :joe:

 

[Deja_Vu]

Thank you very much! Thats alot of useful information

Would you happen to know the variety of newt that is most popular on the west coast of the US? When I was at camp, we caught a rather adorable newt and I'm just wondering what kind he was. He had a very dark red back, and his belly was bright orange. He looks sort of like the fire belly pictures I found online, but he didn't have the black spots, it was just solid orange. I'm sure someone knows what he is xD

Again, thanks for all your helpful information. As I said, if I do chose to have a turtle or newt, I'll most likely put the divider in and only put newt-friendly fish on the newt's side of the tank, and the rest of my fish on the other side.

 

[Cornflakegrl]

How big was the newt you caught? I know that the Taricha species naturally occurs in the west, but I'm not off handly familiar with other Western species. www.caudata.com is an awesome site on salamanders and newts.
Great idea to keep the guys separated. I do love the amphibians!

 

[tricksterpup]

BULL. I don't know of a single grown turtle that could live in 10 inches of water. Obviously you've never owned/properly taken care of an aquatic turtle.:

I agree adult turtles needs lots and lots of room and more than 10 inches. The best adult turtle tanks cages I have seen have been converted kid pools or plastic ponds, placed indoors. But they require plenty of space and constant water changes almost every day to every other day. I have a pair of subadult RES in my 55 right now and its alot of work. They will eat any fish that I place into the tank so fish and these guys are a bad idea.

As for newts or African frogs, I have kept these guys with fish. I love the Eastern Newt with fish, a nice combination but are hard to find. More common are Firebellies and Oregon/Californa Newts. Firebellies do fine in a mostly water tank, but the other needs to have a portion of land to be on to be fully happy. EMG has a wonderful small tank with her firebellies and a Betta.
For a great thread for ideas and cage setups and info on Newts check out this link. http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50139&highlight=Newts
African frogs get big and will eat anything that will be placed in its mouth. But the smaller cousin the African dwarf frog can be kept with fish, small ones that will not pick on it.