Fish Die But Invertabrates Thrive

M

mandalorian2

Registered Member
Apr 21, 2006
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I have a fairly new (about 4 month old) 30 gallon tank the water quality seems good
8.2 Ph
.25 NH4
.2 NO2
1.021 Specific Gravity
76 Degree F Water

I have an undergravel filter, a hanging filter, and a Seaclone Protein Skimmer, I am using a 50/50 Actiene light (pretty sure I misspelled that). The substrate is crushed coral, the rockwork is mostly lace rock mixed with some Pacific live rock.

Now on to the problem. The current inhabitanmts of the tank are 1 Condylactis Anemone, a stalk of 6 or so Feather Dusters, a Turbo Snail, 6 Hermit Crabs, and a Chocolate Chip Starfish. All invertabrates right now because the fish keep dying. A few of the deaths I can account for a Yellow Tang and a Arc-Eyed Hawk fish died following an overnight power outage about two months ago (we have since added a battery backup to prevent this), and I believe a Ocellarius Clown and a three-stripe damsel were stressed to death by an agressive fish that we were later able to sell back to the store, most recently however we lost our last two fish a Flame Angel and another Ocellarius three days and one day respectivly after putting them in the tank, both had seemed healthy the day before, the Flame Angel was a bit of a coward and almost always hid in a cave, and I had watched both eat the night before they died, when I woke up and switched on their light I found the clown dead and my roomate returned home a few hours later to find the angel also dead. all told we have lost 2 Three-Strpe Damsels, 1 Yellow-Tail Damsel, 1 Domino Damsel, 1 Arc-eyed Hawkfish, 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Flame Angel, and 2 Ocellarius Clowns.

I don't think we have been over feeding we give them a pencil eraser sized piece of frozen Brine Shrimp once a day, a chunk of seaweed every two or three days (the starfish ussually eats most of this) and we hand feed the anenome a small piece of reef plankton every third day most of which it swallows but some excapes.

I really don't know what the problem is, the invertabrates that most people have more trouble with are doing great but even that hardiest fish die. Is it just a string of really bad luck? I could really use some suggestions.
 
Well, for starters, keep in mind that a 30 won't support some of the fish that's you've tried--certainly not a tang! And, it doesn't look like the tan is fully cycled. Salinity is a bit low--boost that up to 1.025, especially for a reef--but go slowly!

However, in a 30, I'd say that most likely you're having problems with stress, and potentially, that condy. The fish will be stressed in a small tank, particularly if you don't have lots of live rock and other hiding spots. And, the condylactus anenomes are not potential hosts, and will in fact sting and kill fish. In a small tank, fish will often inadvertantly blkunder into the tentacles too often, and be killed.

Just some things to think about.
 
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Also acclimating the fish really really well is extremely important with saltwater fish.... as well as choosing really healthy fish at the LFS. A good idea is to put a fish on hold for as long as the store will allow- in order to make sure its doing really well for a few days at least before you bring it home. Also get the LFS to feed it at the store.

:)
-Diana
 
mooman said:
Nobody else sees this as a major concern in a 4 month old tank? Lets try and figure out why your still getting detectable ammonia.
Click to expand...

OG noted that it doesn't look like the tank is fully cycled - that's probably a problem. Adding big fish very quickly = ammonia spike = dead animals.

Let it cycle, raise the salinity, it'll come around
 
OrionGirl said:
Well, for starters, keep in mind that a 30 won't support some of the fish that's you've tried--certainly not a tang! And, it doesn't look like the tan is fully cycled. Salinity is a bit low--boost that up to 1.025, especially for a reef--but go slowly!

However, in a 30, I'd say that most likely you're having problems with stress, and potentially, that condy. The fish will be stressed in a small tank, particularly if you don't have lots of live rock and other hiding spots. And, the condylactus anenomes are not potential hosts, and will in fact sting and kill fish. In a small tank, fish will often inadvertantly blkunder into the tentacles too often, and be killed.

Just some things to think about.
Click to expand...

very sound advice here. Also the ammonia readings / also nitrite? should be zero. a 30G tank, after substrate, LR, etc... is more like 24-25G and that's not much for a saltwater tank. 2 Clownfish would be about it, The condy is a pest anenome, try to get rid of it, like stated they have a strong sting and will usually kill / eat your fish down the road. I would recommend maybe something like a frogspawn, i've seen clowns host in this (after the condy is out of the way) or another type of coral.

Also clowns don't "need" anything to host in. i've seen some host everything from heaters to corals. Good luck
 
newest tests

Here are my water tests as of about an hour ago
PH 8.2
Alkalinity Normal
Ammonia .035ppm (the test results were .25 I then multiplied by 14% to find the level of toxic ammonia as the instructions said also .25 is the lowest non zero result my test can give)
[B]Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Temperature 77[/B]
Specific Gravity 1.021 (I'm intenionally keeping it on the low side of normal based on an article I read in SeaScope and on the recommendation of the local aquarium owner because it is supposed to discurage the growth of paracites)

The ammonia level is not zero but it should be within the safe range. Also if the fish were dying due to poor water conditions wouldn't that tend to kill off invertabrates first? I was under the impression that they were more succeptable to poor water than most of the fish I have had.

The Condy's sting is a possibility, but it is quite small (maybe 3" accross when fully out) and the fish have avoided it for the most part I did see it sting the Hawkfish once but there didn't seem to be any ill affects apart from him darting off and staying away from it from then on and this was almost a week before he died in the power failure.

Overcrowding is a concern but at the most we have had four fish in the tank all pretty small the Tang was probably the biggest fish we ever had and it was less than 3" long and maybe 3" high with his dorsal fin up.
 
In Saltwater any detectable ammonia is toxic.


The aquarium is too small for the tang becauce they are very active swimmers, so need alot of swimming room.
 
i think your SG is too low. From what i've heard ppl keeping their SG at and considering low was like 1.023, so i think your under quite a bit. Just my .02 worth
 
I'm no marine expert infact i dont have a marine tank and just thought I'd do some research before buying one ,so came for a read around here. But in the freshwater tanks once its cycled there are some detectable nitrates i.e. the end product of the nitrogen cycle. The fact that your nitrates are 0 to me would be a sign that the tank is definetly not cycled yet. Plus you still have detectable ammonia and ammonia even at low levels is toxic to fish, as I understand the situation SW fish are far more sensative to water params than FW fish and even I wouldn't be happy with detectable ammonia in my FW tanks.
 
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