Fish side kick death. Traumatized friend.

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RookieBlue

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Jan 28, 2020
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Hello,

New to the world of aquariums.

Have 3 mollies Kevin, Sunni and Rainbow in a 3.5 gallon tank. Got advice from Big al's that it would be fine to have that many. But I now know it is way too small of a tank for the amount of fish.
Recently changed water due to high nitrate and nitrite levels. Unfortunately I lost Kevin which was Sunni's side kick. When I put Sunni into the tank he was swimming nose down as if he were looking for something.

Now he is staying under the filter while Rainbow pecks at the gravel, the rock with moss and a bamboo stock.

The levels have lowered, but are still high. I want to transfer them to a 40 gallon tank, how do I keep them alive until I can get the tank up and running?

Yes I know I should have done my own research. I feel so bad that I killed Kevin and now Sunni isn't doing too well.

I really hope there is a way to keep them alive until I can get the tank ready.
 
Apr 2, 2002
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Without knowing your exact readings, it is difficult to advise. If nitrite is the issue, then you can handle it by adding a proper amount of salt to the water. The mollies will actually like that. Salt is sodium chloride and the chloride in it will block further nitrite from entering your fishes blood stream. There is a process to determine how much salt to add. I wrote this as part of an article for another site, so i have to reproduce it here rather than link it. If you have any questions you can PM me. Note, this will not help with ammonia if that is present. For ammonia, one needs to know the reading for that as well as for the tank pH and temprtsture to calculate how toxic the ammonia may be and, therefore, how to deal with it.

SIGNS OF NITRITE POISONING
Fish will not behave as they normally do. Because their blood is not carrying oxygen, fish will behave as if they are suffocating. They may hang just below the water surface or near filter outflows trying to get air. What you will not see is any outward sign of bodily damage nor damage to the gills of the fish.


HOW TO MANAGE NITRITE POISONING

Fortunately, there is an effective way to blunt the harmful effects of elevated nitrite that doesn’t involve changing lots of water- you add salt (sodium chloride) to the water. The chloride in the salt acts to” block” the ability of nitrite to enter though the gills of the fish and thus to cause the harm inside the fish it might. So it is possible to manage elevated nitrite over the short term using salt in relatively small amounts.

“Sodium chloride (common salt, NaCl) is used to “treat” brown blood disease. Calcium chloride can also be used but is typically more expensive. The chloride portion of salt competes with nitrite for absorption through the gills. Maintaining at least a 10 to 1 ratio of chloride to nitrite in a pond effectively prevents nitrite from entering catfish.”

It should be noted that the Merck Veterinary manual suggests a lower ratio of chloride:

“In freshwater production ponds for channel catfish, a ratio of 6 parts Cl to 1 part NO2 has effectively prevented or treated methemoglobinemia caused by nitrite exposure.”

Since the amount of salt needed to produce either 6 or 10 times the chloride as nitrite is minimal, this author prefers to use the higher ratio of 10 to 1 in order to be more certain of obtaining the needed relief. One should also be aware that studies indicate that, whether one changes water or uses chloride to counter the effects of nitrite toxicity, it will still take between 24-72 hours for nitrite already inside fish to be completely eliminated. Preventing further nitrite from entering usually solves the problem.


WHAT SALT TO USE
Plain old table salt is just fine for use here. Do not worry if it says Iodized or if it says it contains Anti-caking agents. The amount of either of these in the salt is so minimal one would pickle their fish long before these ingredients would be doing any harm. Read here for facts about table salt and fish: http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/The_Salt_of_the_Earth


PERFORMING DILUTED NITRITE TESTING
The problem with dealing with elevated nitrite is that the typical aquarium kits do not go high enough to let us know how much nitrite may really be in any tank. And this makes fish in cycling more complex and more work than fishless. You will likely need to know how to do diluted nitrite tests. For this you need a way to create an accurate mix of your tank water and some amount of pure water, i.e. distilled or reverse osmosis/deionized (ro/di) water. You should be able to find a gallon of distilled water in the supermarket. Some fish stores sell ro/di water.

You will need a clean measuring cup as well. You will use this to mix different solutions of tank and pure water to be able to test for nitrite. You do not want to use your tap water for dilution purposes as it will often contain things that can cause test result be inaccurate.

The reason for using a measuring cup is that it is important to get the proportions of the mix as close to dead on as possible. The advantage of measuring using a cup from which you will only use a few ml is that the potential for mixing errors is way less of an issue in 8 ounces than in 5 or 10 ml of water. What you will do is start by making a 50/50 mix (4 ounces each) of tank and pure water. Then you pour 5 ml of this into the little test tube and then do the nitrite test. Multiply the result of the test by 2 to get the actual ppm in your tank.

However if this 50/50 diluted test result is still at the kit’s maximum level and the test kit reads to a maximum level of 8 ppm or less, you will have to do another dilution. The easiest way is to start with ¼ cup of tank water and ¾ cup of pure water. Test this mix and multiply the result by 4 this time. Alternatively you can use ½ cup of the initial 50/50 mix and then add ½ cup of pure water to this. The result will also be ¼ tank and ¾ pure water. If this test is also at the maximum number, don't worry about a further test, just do a huge water change (at least 50%) ASAP. After doing the water change, test for nitrite and then add the required amount of salt to deal with that amount of nitrite.
You will need to continue testing for nitrite because any further rise may mean that either water changes are needed and/or that further salt additions are needed.

CALCULATING HOW MUCH SALT TO ADD

PPM is a measure of concentration in water. You cannot weigh ppms. However, 1 mg/l is almost the exact equivalent in water to 1 ppm. So one can use ppm and mg/l interchangeably in this case. You can weigh milligrams.

To add 10 mg/l of chloride for every ppm of nitrite in the water, use the following steps:

1. Multiply your nitrite test reading by 10. This will give you the needed mg/l of chloride you need to add.

2. Calculate the actual volume in litres of the water in your tank. If your volume is in gallons you must convert this into liters. (As a rule, using the advertised volume of the tank at about 85% will put you in the right ballpark.) 1 gallon = 3.875 litres

3. Multiply the number in #1 above by the number of liters of water in #2 above to get the total number of mg of chloride you will need to add.

4. Because salt is roughly 2/3 chloride, you must multiply the number calculated in #3 by 1.5. You now know how many mg of salt you should add to the water. Dividing this number by 1,000 will convert this amount to grams which are easier to weigh for most people.

5. Do not add the dry salt directly to the tank. Remove some tank water to a container and mix the salt in that, then add the salt water to the tank spreading it around the surface.

Hint: We have calculated a handy conversion from grams to volume so one can measure in tea or table spoons which most folks are likely to have while a gram scale is not. The following calculations were made using an Ohaus triple beam scale: ¼ teaspoon of salt shaker sized table salt weighs 2 grams.

The readings used in this article are for API and similar type test kits which measure in total ions. Some kits will measure using a different scale, they are only measuring the nitrogen ions. You can tell when a kit reads just the nitrogen ions by the way they state things. The typical kits will say they measure Total Ammonia (NH3 + NH4), Nitrite (NO2) or Nitrate (N03). Kits that measure only the nitrogen ions will usually say they measure Total Ammonia-Nitrogen (NH3-N + NH4-N), Nitrite-Nitrogen (NO2-N) or Nitrate-Nitrogen (NO3-N).

(If you need help converting between total ion and the Nirtogen scale there is a formula I can give you.)
 

Rbishop

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TTA gives good advice...or you could just do frequent water changes and test with a good liquid test kit.
 
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FreshyFresh

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Excellent information indeed.

Another option if you are in a pinch is Seachem prime or the granular form Safe will temporarily detoxify nitrite.

Salt or frequent water changes are the better options.
 

fishorama

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Wow, TTA, another good scientific way of dealing some of our aquarium problems. For newbies I think the salt teaspoons/tank size is easier to understand & implement...& like you said mollies actually like salt (or hardness) in their water...other fish may not.

I tend to recommend "some" salt & large water changes like Joel said. But it's good to have an actual amount of salt to nitrite calculation...Another argument for fishless cycling, it so much safer & easier than "fixing" issues.
 
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Apr 2, 2002
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Just to backtrack this thread a bit.

The amount of salt involved here is minimal. It is not going to harm almost any fw fish.

Water changes do not really help with nitrite and may even make things worse.

- nitrite inside a fish takes about a day + to work its way out of the fish. the best way to remove nitrite from a fish it to remove the nitrite from the water (or neutralize it).*
- a 50% water change means 1/2 the nitrite remains and it is still entering the fish.
- fish in a new tank are unsettled. They take time to adjust to a new home and all that entails. Water changes tend to stress fish in such a state. The same fish who flee in terror from a WC, just a few months later, have to be shooed out of the way to do tank work.
- exposure to meaningful levels of ammonia and/or nitrite stress fish in addition to the physical harm these chemicals can do.
- using the small amount of salt needed in the above solution prevents further nitrite from entering the fish and continuing to suffocate it. If you have the proper amount of salt in the water, high nitrite doesn't matter.
- not lowereing nitrite levels by doing WCs also speeds the cycle.

* One can counteract nitrite inside a fish by adding methylene blue to the water. This presents two problems- proper dosing levels and the fact that can stain almost everything in a tank blue.

The above outlined methodology for dealing with nitrite when there are fish involved is pretty complex for those average preson new to fisheeping. It is one of the better arguements for why one should always try to do a fishless cycle instead.
 
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