fishless cycling 6 weeks in..HELP

i think maybe you are reading your tests wrong, unless there is something in the water that can kill the nitrifying bacteria. what exactly in the readins makes you think that you are starting all over again?. basically all you need to do is maintain the ammonia levels in your tank at about 5ppm untill it vanishes over night. is the ammonia doign this? if it is then all you need to do is a huge water change (80%) and your set. if you can tell us, how often are you adding ammonia and what are your test results. and why do you think you keep getting reset :)
 
fishless cycling 8 weeks in

Well I don't think I am reading the test wrong. I have been dosing with 3 drops of ammonia per 10 gal (45 gal tank) and it has been burning through it in about 2 hours. When I first started out I was dosing to 5ppm but several people suggested cutting the dose and only adding 3-4 drops per 10 gal. So that is what I have been doing and I have been adding it every day. I think I might have restarted the cycle because for a while I was at o nitrites but couldn't get rid of the ammonia and then I changed the dosing and now I am at 0 ammonia but yesterday I had nitrites around 2-3 and today they are at .50. So I am not sure. But hopefully I am close. Several people have also said when I was at o ammonia I was cycled but all the articles I have read have said the ammonia AND the nitrites had to be at zero. So are you saying the nitrites don't have to be at zero and I just need to do a water change?

Everyone thanks again so much for all of your help!!
 
hi nichole

I think your tests are probably ok and you've accidentally pushed your cycle back a bit. The stuff in your water that can suppress nitrifying bacteria would have been the acid from the pH crash.

The 3-4 drops per 10 gals is not necessarily an accurate dose. Might be, but then again…. Ammonia concentrations can vary from one mix to the next or concentrations can drop as the mix ages. Thats why the protocol is usually "enough to get to 5ppm" and not a specific amount. I used 1/4 teaspoon for my 30g, although I think that may have been a little high (long nitrites, 30 day cycle). I think 3-4 drops/10g would have been a little low for me. It'll work in the long run but it may not be optimal.

The cycle isn't established until you are at double zeros: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite.

It does sound like you're close.

It seems to me that a lot of times it sounds like the cycle is something that happens once at the beginning and then is finished. Its really something that isn't happening at the beginning that we're trying to get going safely. Then it will happen automatically and continuously. The nutshell rendition: the fish produce (or we dose) ammonia, bacteria converts that to nitrites, other bacteria converts nitrites to nitrates. Generally the process ends there and nitrates tend to build up. The whole process tends to acidify the water.

The key points: ammonia and nitrites are dangerously toxic to fish -- the cycle isn't established until you have colonies that can process the full load as fast as it comes in. Nitrates are not as toxic -- you'll want to keep them low but they will be present in your tank. Water changes are the most common method of nitrate export. By the time you have finished a fishless cycle you'll probably have a pretty high level of nitrates so the last step is a large scale water change to remove them before the fish go in. Generally you want to keep the nitrates at least below 40 ppm and preferably under 20.

After the fish are in there will always be more ammonia, more nitrites, more nitrates, more acidification. The bacteria will take care of the first two, regular water changes will take care of the second two. There is a bunch of stuff (like nitrates) you'll want to remove, and stuff (like carbonates) that are being used up and need to be added back in. Once you're up and running the normal recommendation is for a 20 or 25% change once every week or so.

The coral in your filter should help give you a nice stable pH, but you can have too much of a good thing -- keep an eye on it to make sure your pH isn't drfiting up above where you want it to be. I need to supplement my buffer and you may as well. Or you may be overcorrecting a onetime incident caused by a lack of water changes and unusually high amounts of ammonia. Just something to keep an eye on and very adjustable.

You're almost there!

:D
 
fishless cycling 6 weeks in

Carpguy thank you so much for the post. So much good information. I going to raise the ammonia dosage to 5 and see what happens. I am pretty sure it will burn through it.
Thanks again for all the information. I think i definitely had some problems because of my ph problem but that has been fixed with the coral and has been very stable.
I hope I am almost there. Two months now of staring at a fishless tank is getting old.
Thanks for your help.
 
from looking at the last results you posted for us i would say you are done, you are just getting added spikes because of the added ammonia. just do an 80% water change and then check your readings. after that you should be ready to go


im so glad i read some of the links that carpguy put in cause i found out i did my cycle wrong =/. i never even tested for nitrates heeh. just when i saw that my ammonia vanished over night i did the water change, that got rid of my nitrites and i put fish in :eek: oh well it seems to have worked.

anyway, after re reading the articles i have some more suggestions, you dont seem to have mentioned nitrAtes yet, they are what you are aiming for, please test for them and tell us if you are gettin g a reading. in wetmanNY's site it is suggested that the large quatities of ammonia might be stopping the bacteria that converts the nitrites to nitrates from getting a foot hold. but if there is nitrates in your tank i would say you are done.
 
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fishless cycling 8 weeks in

demon surfer..I have been testing for nitrates. Here are my readings from today.

ammonia: 0
nitrites: 5
ph: 7.4
nitrates: 40

Some people say I was done when ammonia went to 0 and some say I am not done until ammonia and nitrites are at 0. I have also read articles where some say when ammonia is 0 you are cycled and some that say ammonia and nitrites have to be 0 to be cycled. Just don't know what to do!!
 
Nitrites aren't as toxic as ammonia can be but they're still toxic. A colony will be along in a little bit to process them down to nitrates. Establishing a "Nitrogen Cycle" includes both spikes, both colonies. Double zeros is done.

The WetMan has one of the best info sites on the web. Here's a link to the archived version of the nitrogen cycle section. I just reread it and once again learned a bunch of new stuff. He has seemed a little grouchy of late, but don't let that fool you -- he's one of the most knowledgeable and helpful folks you're likely to find out here.

The original protocol (in the Chris Cow articles) was to scale back the ammonia dose to half the original 5ppm dose once the ammonia spike was complete and the nitrite spike was underway. Since this is where you're at now you might try that. Some of the fishless crowd favor staying at the higher dose but some of the feedback suggests that this may tend to draw out the nitrite spike, something I'm sure you'd like to avoid.

My fishless only took a month and that seemed like a long time at the time. Now its just a distant memory and I've got a tank full of healthy fish cruising around. You'll get there.



Edit: the WetFeller is just now switching over to the new version and its apparently not a seemless process. I couldn't get past the front page but I could go to the archived older version. Bookmark it and return often. I'm sure he'll get there too…
 
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Personally, I wouldn't add fish until both ammonia and nitrite read zero within 24 hours after dosing with ammonia. Why risk exposing fish to nitrite poisoning after waiting so long? It will end soon... it always does. It just seems to take forever.

Jim
 
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