Freshwater Stingray?
- Thread starter born2lovefish
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Youre right...our entire water supply is just pure H2O :headshake2:
If you have some actual information to share, then by all means do share, but in another topic. Otherwise I suggest that the mods close this thread. I believe the original topic has been addressed and this thread is just going off course. I apologize for part of that.
You guys realize this is almost a 4 y r old thread right...I also caution that further direct name calling will result in infractions. Feel free to have discussions but there is no nee to make it personal nor to call people names.
u no i shouldn't interrupt but i need to clarify something. All the water on earth has been here for billions of years. Used by billions of living things and it has never been globally water changed. If u replenish the vital ingredients that are necessary for life to exist (vitamins calcium metals oxygen and other things used by life) then theoretically u never need to change ur water. Also the only thing different from fish tanks and lakes/stream/rivers is that lakes are big rivers are moving lakes, and steams are cold and moving. I rarely change my water except to top off the tank. My fish arent dying of malnutrition or lack of "water refreshment". Water from the tap contains more pollution then water from any river (unless we polluted it) or lake on the planet.
Billions of years??? Maybe a "long time" would be a better description of time. So far no one has really proved that this planet is "billions" of years or only several thousand.
Actually, I have a B.S. in biological sciences, worked as a chemist for 3 years, have my PharmD, working on my Masters, and actually am preparing a seminar lecture on fluids and electrolytes as we speak. I think I understand a little something about electrolytes...
What are your credentials? I mean, if you think I don't know what I'm talking about you must have 5 PhDs in piscine homeostasis or something. I do love the argument that if you can't see it it doesn't exist.
No, actually, it's quite on-topic.
The question, quite relevant to the original point, is whether we should do routinized water changes, and if so, why.
YOU are the one failing, entirely, to provide the information necessary.
You and your "side" are making a specific claim: That you MUST have water changes, constant and frequent.
Then, when asked why, you are only relaying vague impressions you seem to have.
There is this famous story:
Take some gorillas in an enclosure, the mid-20th-century, plain white room sort of zoo pen.
A rope to climb.
After a while, though, start punishing the apes whenever anyone climbs it.
Hose down the OTHER gorillas with ice water, not the one who climbs.
Quickly, they will learn to stop each other from climbing.
Then, remove one ape, and add a new, inexperience one.
He will try to climb the rope. The others will stop him. He won't know why, but he'll learn not to climb it.
At this point, you don't even need to actually use the hose.
Replace another of the original apes. Wait for the new one to learn the rule.
Do it again. And again...until you have only new apes, who have never been hosed down.
STILL, most or all of the apes will stop anyone new from climbing the rope.
Now you have the equivalent of a human's cultural taboo...or the rule of "always change the water", or "always pull all weeds in your garden" (many weeds are actually good for the plants you are growing, which get stressed by bare-earth gardening techniques), et cetera.
Why do you stop anyone from climbing the rope?
"Because we always have".
Why must we always change the water?
"Because we always have."
Oh...my...goodness. I don't want to argue. If you even read the first post it was asking where to get a ray. You saw something about water changes and started creating controversy. Cool it, dude.
:bs: :screwy: For starters we know the earth is 4.6 billion years old at least. We also know that life has been here for billions of years (dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago) and water has been on it for at least 3 billion of those year or advanced life-forms like us would not exist. We know this from rock records.
If you can't give me a specific explanation, your credentials are meaningless.
I know, bureaucrats all imagine that paper is proof...but that's just silly. Even in your profession, there are people who take completely opposing sides of various issues.
Ultimately, all debates come down to the facts and logic. Argumentum ad verecundium is as meaningless as argumentum ad hominem.
Again I ask:
Give me the specifics, of what exactly you are altering by your frequent water changes. Not some vague "well, there must be some kind of trace stuff"...that wouldn't get you past a peer review board, would it.
Are you claiming that the electrolytes...sodium chloride, calcium chloride, potassium chloride, for example...are somehow being "consumed", and cannot be replaced by adding SALT? Or that they are materializing in the water from nowhere, and yet you cannot test the specific gravity of the water to determine this?
What, precisely, are the trace elements being lost or added, what is the mechanism by which this is happening, and why can you not fix this in some other means, besides the primitive, under-gravel-filter-era obsession with frequent water changes?
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