Goldfish and?

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Puppy

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May 19, 2007
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DD wasn't being rude, and you shouldn't speak to her that way.
I disagree.

DD's purposeful misinterpretation of my statements in an attempt to further her own arguement/position was very rude IMHO.

And since when is calling foul on that sort of behavior out of order?
 

jtburf

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Jul 18, 2007
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Dangerdoll apologized, and you won't by pursueing the matter, so now you are the rude one IMO.
 

Puppy

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Welcome to AC, Puppy!

To make your experience here as pleasurable as possible, try to refrain from insulting moderators, long-term members, and other folks who have proven time and again, through posting and discussion, to be sensible and caring fishkeepers. As anyone with 30 years experience in ANYTHING should know. . . . just because something is "common" doesn't make it right.
I have been refraining, but smart comments such as yours certainly dont help with that self-restraint.

However I will not allow myself or anyone else to be trampled on by a bunch of forum thugs either, regardless of their post count, regardless of how many gang up on me, or their status as a moderator or regardless of how persistant they are.

And there seems to be a real problem with the reading comprehension abilities of several members of this forum as once again I have to ask that you people stop misrepresenting my statements, as I made no assertions that: "....because something is common, that makes it right".
 
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Puppy

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DD,

In order to make things easier, I am going to color my comments in blue.

I'm sorry you feel this way Pup and hope you find other threads better suit your thoughts and ideas. As far as outrageous claims and ideas, well, http://www.goldfishparadise.com/ will discuss the hormone issues and stunting, things that will ultimately kill the fish, reasons of why a 10 gallon tank is no place for goldfish.

The reality of the situation is that people do keep small goldfish in a 10 gallon tanks, regardless of how you feel about the issue.

And everyone in this thread who attacked Chsscott for "torturing" his/her fish was completely out of line.

So please act like a moderator, issue a fatwa calling off the jihadists and lets try to keep things in perspective shall we?

As far as manners are concerned, I don't think I presented any bad manners, however those that hear bad news or news they are not ready to accept, often mistake the advice for bad manners and for that, I apologize. I will not apologize for my post though as I believe the info is correct. If it is found insulting, then again, I am sorry you feel that way.

Olive branch accepted, however once the goldfish growth hormone slows or stops being excreted by the goldfishs pituitary glands ALL of that fishs growth slows or stops, this includes all of the other internal organs.

The reason for the 10 year life expectantcy of the smaller gold fish is because their metabolism is higher than that of their larger brethern.

Biology 101.

The ultimate suggestion from me to the OP is that perhaps the fish should be brought back to the store and new fish that are more appropriate for a 10 gallon could perhaps be traded off for them.
I personally dont know of any local fish stores that will accept random fish off the street, if the LFS did accept the fish they would probably just immediately discard them into the trash after the donatee left the store.

I will agree that there are better choices for a 10 gallon aquarium, however goldfish living in 10 gallon tanks is a fact of life, and not everyone is going to rush right out and upgrade their tank or trade off their beloved goldfish for tetras.

So while pointing out the benifits of a larger tank, better filtration, or even recominding other species is a good thing, the good advice should not come packaged with the whole "miniature concentration camp" comparisons.



 

Dangerdoll

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I have been refraining, but smart comments such as yours certainly dont help with that self-restraint.
However I will not allow myself or anyone else to be trampled on by a bunch of forum thugs either, regardless of their post count, regardless of how many gang up on me, or their status as a moderator or regardless of how persistant they are.
And there seems to be a real problem with the reading comprehension abilities of several members of this forum as once again I have to ask that you people stop misrepresenting my statements, as I made no assertions that: "....because something is common, that makes it right".
Puppy, no one is ganging up on you, people are simply responding/reacting to your accusing posts, the same as you did. You are continually calling the members here rude and then throw in the reading comprehension abilities of several members of this forum. And for the record, you have asserted that people do in fact keep goldfish in a 10 gallon. As far as it indicating whether you think is right or not is not the question, it is implied.:
goldfish can grow quite large and live for quite a long time, but folks keeping a handful of feeders in a 10 gallon aquarium isnt exactly all that uncommon.
DD,
In order to make things easier, I am going to color my comments in blue.
I personally dont know of any local fish stores that will accept random fish off the street, if the LFS did accept the fish they would probably just immediately discard them into the trash after the donatee left the store.
Because you don't experience something or don't have the repetoir, doesn't mean others don't. And for an LFS to accept a trade and then simply put the fish in the trash is ludicrous.

I will agree that there are better choices for a 10 gallon aquarium, however goldfish living in 10 gallon tanks is a fact of life, and not everyone is going to rush right out and upgrade their tank or trade off their beloved goldfish for tetras.
The member has asked for our advice and we have given it. We are not dictating what they have to do, only expressing our opinion of what needs to be done. This is a forum, not a do all or else. People take the opinions of what they inquired about and do what they will.

So while pointing out the benifits of a larger tank, better filtration, or even recominding other species is a good thing, the good advice should not come packaged with the whole "miniature concentration camp" comparisons.
Lets put this thread back on track. Puppy, if you have issues you feel that you need to address, by all means, PM me or one of the other mods. We will be happy to discuss them with you.
 
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Puppy

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May 19, 2007
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DD, once again I will color my comments blue to make them easier to read.

Puppy, no one is ganging up on you, people are simply responding/reacting to your accusing posts, the same as you did. You are continually calling the members here rude and then throw in the reading comprehension abilities of several members of this forum.

You must be joking.

Chsscott was being viciously lynched in this thread, I mearly attempted to put a stop to it by pointing out the bad behavior, which is not exactly the same thing.

And yes I do have to question the reading comprehension abilities of people who either ignorantly or purposefully misrepresent my statements as you have done once again in your statement below.


And for the record, you have asserted that people do in fact keep goldfish in a 10 gallon. As far as it indicating whether you think is right or not is not the question, it is implied.:

I never said or implied whether I thought it was "right or wrong" I mearly stated that it wasnt exactly uncommon and that it was a fact of life that folks keep goldfish in 10 gallon aquariums.

I dont know how I could have made that any clearer.

Lets put this thread back on track. Puppy, if you have issues you feel that you need to address, by all means, PM me or one of the other mods. We will be happy to discuss them with you.

I have addressed the issues, you however have not.

Instead you choose to admonish me for my behavior while being absolutely silent about all of the bad behavior that brought me into this thread to begin with.

On top of that, you completely ignored the whole biological explaination I gave in my last post with regards to the goldfish growth stunting and shortned life expectancy that you were so concerned about to begin with!
 

silentskream

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May 16, 2004
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puppy, yes i did indeed dismiss your "30 years experience" because it has apparently led you to give faulty information, and you even labeled the accurate information as "asinine fish stories."

I find it VERY offensive that you would imply that just because some people keep 3 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank means it's just fine. and no, you didn't make that clear in the original statement. in fact, you called the reasons it's not fine "assinine" and made no argument to the contrary. you say you dont know how you could have made it more clear, i can think of plenty. "its not a good idea" or "its bad for the fish" are good places to start.

my goldfish are my pride and joy, and their health and safety comes first and foremost, unfortunately that means your feelings come second at best, and since you're giving faulty information to newbies that don't know any better, then justifying it with 30 years of experience, your feelings come last.

some of us spend too much time teaching and informing people of the proper way to take care of aquaria to just sit sweetly by while someone not only gives faulty information but does so disrespectfully and critically, and with so little foundation.

MOST lfs will accept "donations".. they wont always give store credit or credit towards another fish, but they will at least take them in. even petsmart (who are not supposed to do it according to petsmart policy) will do it. it helps if you have an established relationship with your lfs.

as far as the growth hormone situation, yes, once the fish stops secreting growth hormone, the whole body stops growing. HOWEVER if the water is changed often (like most goldfish bowls and other small tanks) then the growth hormone will continue to be produced and there's no definite cut off point. and, as if goldfish organs weren't inefficient already, the oversized (albeit not growing) organs will be even less efficient.. and the organs are still oversized compared to the tightened exterior. one could still assume that even this situation would still be bad.
 
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Dangerdoll

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Originally Posted by Dangerdoll
Puppy, no one is ganging up on you, people are simply responding/reacting to your accusing posts, the same as you did. You are continually calling the members here rude and then throw in the reading comprehension abilities of several members of this forum.

You must be joking.

Chsscott was being viciously lynched in this thread, I mearly attempted to put a stop to it by pointing out the bad behavior, which is not exactly the same thing.
Where in here does it say you are responding to my post of no one is ganging up on you? And with this, how is calling people rude, claiming they

And yes I do have to question the reading comprehension abilities of people who either ignorantly or purposefully misrepresent my statements as you have done once again in your statement below.
Puppy, with all due respect, by you calling the members here jihadists, rude, and accusing them of comparing goldfish to the cramped quarters of "miniature concentration camp" pushes the natural human reaction of defense, just as this thread pushed you to defense for whatever reason.

Pupp, I was saying YOU were not being ganged up on. Where

And for the record, you have asserted that people do in fact keep goldfish in a 10 gallon. As far as it indicating whether you think is right or not is not the question, it is implied.:

I never said or implied whether I thought it was "right or wrong" I mearly stated that it wasnt exactly uncommon and that it was a fact of life that folks keep goldfish in 10 gallon aquariums.

I dont know how I could have made that any clearer.
by saying that it wasn't uncommon indicated to most that you are implying it is ok no matter what side of the bread you look at.

Lets put this thread back on track. Puppy, if you have issues you feel that you need to address, by all means, PM me or one of the other mods. We will be happy to discuss them with you.

I have addressed the issues, you however have not.
I refuse to bite your bait on whatever game you are trying to get at. What this all boils down to is this is a fish forum. People come here for advice on how to treat their fish and what they can do to make their tanks the best they can be for what they hold. People that give advice here do it with their opinions and back it up with links if they believe they have facts. The posters with questions, well, they come here posting questions are are free to do what they wish with the information. Does it guarantee it will be done? Nah, but we can say we at least tried. As for posts being rude, well, I already stated my opinion on that and will again if needed, just in case. Posts in this thread that may be considered "rude" prior to your posts are not rude posts. They are indicating that the fish would deal better in larger than a 10 gallon tank and offers of what to do given the situation are given. If they don't suit the posters needs, what can we do? This is what we believe needs to happen in order to ensure the optimal health for the fish. Have you even gone to the link I posted? You will get these same "rude" (as you call it) opinions there.

Instead you choose to admonish me for my behavior while being absolutely silent about all of the bad behavior that brought me into this thread to begin with.
There was no ill behavior on this thread until you stepped in with false accusations and continuing to make provoking posts. I asked that you please take this subject off the thread. If you have any issues with the behavior of any mod or member that you feel is not being taken care of effectively enough for yourself, please feel free to PM the site Admin or another mod. I'm sure you can be helped.

On top of that, you completely ignored the whole biological explaination I gave in my last post with regards to the goldfish growth stunting and shortned life expectancy that you were so concerned about to begin with!
My biological information is backed up with the link I provided.

Furthermore, Puppy, I ask again that if you have any distaste that you feel you need to discuss further, that you PM me, another mod, or the site admin so that we can all see what the problem is that needs to be addressed in regards to false accusations and rudeness. If this is continued in the thread, the thread will be closed, your posts removed and appropriate actions will be taken.
 

Puppy

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May 19, 2007
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puppy, yes i did indeed dismiss your "30 years experience" because it has apparently led you to give faulty information, and you even labeled the accurate information as "asinine fish stories."

There was no faulty or misinformation in any of my posts, you & your ilk are the ones making outrageous claims that are contrary to accepted biological processes.

I find it VERY offensive that you would imply that just because some people keep 3 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank means it's just fine. and no, you didn't make that clear in the original statement. in fact, you called the reasons it's not fine "assinine" and made no argument to the contrary. you say you dont know how you could have made it more clear, i can think of plenty. "its not a good idea" or "its bad for the fish" are good places to start.

I made no judgements about the "rightness or the wrongness" of it at all, I mearly said it was a fact of life and that folks do it, just because you are having emotional problems dealing with that reality doesnt give you the authority to dictate to other people (ie: me) that I/they have to judge it one way or the other (and/or the folks who do it along with it).

"Holier than Thou" is a term generally applied to people like that.

my goldfish are my pride and joy, and their health and safety comes first and foremost, unfortunately that means your feelings come second at best, and since you're giving faulty information to newbies that don't know any better, then justifying it with 30 years of experience, your feelings come last.

I hate repeating myself but once again ... I am not the one who is going around making outragious/assinine claims that are contrary to accepted biological processes.

some of us spend too much time teaching and informing people of the proper way to take care of aquaria to just sit sweetly by while someone not only gives faulty information but does so disrespectfully and critically, and with so little foundation.

Maybe you should stick to teaching/informing people about stuff you actually do know a little something about, because apparently goldfish biology really isnt your forte'.


MOST lfs will accept "donations".. they wont always give store credit or credit towards another fish, but they will at least take them in. even petsmart (who are not supposed to do it according to petsmart policy) will do it. it helps if you have an established relationship with your lfs.

Again you show just how little you know about the stuff you choose to talk about, MOST lfs DO NOT accept fish off the street, as it only takes one sick fish to contaminate their whole stock, which is not a risk that most "for profit" business are likely to take.

as far as the growth hormone situation, yes, once the fish stops secreting growth hormone, the whole body stops growing. HOWEVER if the water is changed often (like most goldfish bowls and other small tanks) then the growth hormone will continue to be produced and there's no definite cut off point. and, as if goldfish organs weren't inefficient already, the oversized (albeit not growing) organs will be even less efficient.. and the organs are still oversized compared to the tightened exterior. one could still assume that even this situation would still be bad.

Goldfishs pituitary glands do not secrete growth hormone into the water, they secrete the growth hormone into the goldfishs brain by way of a small "capillary like" arterial system.

I dont know who, what or where you got your information from but its wrong.
.
 

Puppy

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May 19, 2007
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DD,

Would you care to elaborate on the "appropriate actions will be taken" part because that sort of sounded like a threat on this end.
 
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