Gourami: Turning grey at the bottom of the tank

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ReneeH

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Aug 17, 2003
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Sacramento
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My husband is the expert and the one responsible for the tank, so I may leave something out. Let me know if you need more info!

Background
We purchased the tank used in early spring. We cleaned it up but didn't remove the gravel. We cycled the tank for at least two weeks with a betta. Later, we added several gourami pairs and found that mixing may have not been a good idea. We currently have two dwarf grourami and a red tailed shark in the tank.

Current Stats
Nitrite - 0
Hardness - 120
Alkalinity - between 0 and 80
pH - 7.2
Nitrate - 80
Ammonia - .25

Symptoms
Gourami rest at the bottom of the tank. Sometimes lying on their sides. Their colors have dulled, head and sides have greyish tint. They seem to have trouble getting to the surface.

Actions and Effects
Partial water change - added 2.5 gallons of distilled water.
Added recommended amount of aquarium salt - possibly changed pH from 6.8 to 7.2?
Added bubble wall.
Moved gourami into hospital tank, setup includes:
Low water level, filter for water flow, hiding place (plastic plants), added recommended amount of AmQuel Plus. Stats: Nitrite - 0, Hardness - 25, Alkalinity - between 0 and 80, pH - 6.8, Nitrate - 0.

Other Info
The Red Tailed Shark seems to be doing fine.
There are also two mystery snails (purchased) in the tank, along with tons of smaller snails (came with tank/multiplied)
One live plant in the tank: sword.
Plant removed recently: anacharis (justification: thought possible dodgy fish store origin)

Do have any suggestions? What can we do to try to save these fish?

I have to go to work, but will check back this evening. I will also try to post an image, if it will help.

Thank you so much!
Renee
 
Your ammonia is kind of high, which may be causing problems. Though, I would expect symptoms from the red tail before the gourami. Are your fish gasping? What size is the tank? How long has this been going on?

Signs of disease?

It sounds almost like ammonia poisoning.. IMO.
 
Thanks PumaWard!

Update and More Info

One Gourami has passed away. :(

Ammonia levels (tested tonight): .25 for both the main tank and the hospital tank. I'm using test strips and the color doesn't quite look green enough for 0.25, but it's definitely not yellow enough for 0.

Yes, the fish is gasping. It hasn't been eating either.

Tank size: 20 Gallon

The symptoms have existed for about 1.5 weeks.

Signs of disease? We haven't found any pictures/descriptions in books or online that seem close. There aren't any white spots (that I noticed), or deteriorating areas.

When my husband gets home we'll take a picture of the deceased (if it isn't too morbid). If it helps us and others identify the cause it may be worth it.

Thanks for all your help!
 
The tank doesn't have an exstablished bacteria bed, and this is resulting in ammonia levels that damage the fish.

Water changes are a good idea--the more, the merrier. The aquarium salt is not needed, and won't help out most fish, though for now it's not a big deal, since the nitrites will be coming along and it will help there. Don't add anymore, though--it's not needed for any of the fish you have outside of a medication.

What kind of filter is on the tank?
 
Thanks for your help everyone!

We lost the other gourami :(

We will continue doing water changes until the ammonia level is better. The Red Tail seems to be fine.

After a several weeks we may try again. This time with one blue gourami.

Thanks!!!!
Renee
 
Those test strips aren't going to give accurate readings with the use of Amquel, as the Amquel converts free ammonia into Ammonium. The Ammonium is availbe to plants as a fertilizer but will not damage the fish or effect the bacteria colonies that are involved in the "Cycling" process. There may be other causes of the loss of your Dwarfs, however. I'll not speculate, but with any of the "Three Spot" Gouramis they get to be 4-1/2" long and the Red tailed sharks will easily get there, so your tank will be pretty crowded quickly. With the bigger Gouramis either keep 1 or groups larger than 3 or they will get scrappy amost themselves.
 
Dwarf gouramis are very delicate fish, and it is difficult to get good stock. They are the only fish that i've had poor success with.

You may want to return the rts to your fish store, and cycle the tank using the fishless cycle method. See:
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html
In two weeks you'll be ready to fully stock your tank in one shot, since with the fishless cylcing, you'll be ready to handle a be bioload from the start.

You may want to try Pearl Gouramis. They are just about as robust as blue/three spot gouramis, but not nearly as aggressive.

You'll also want to add some floating plants such as watersprite or java moss.
 
karfixer
Thanks for your advise! We only put the Amquel in the hospital tank. We are aware of the growth possibilities for these fish. Right now, we have a Gold in with our Cooter in a 50 (moving to a 125 this weekend). So, we are only planning on getting one blue gourami to go with the Red Tail in the 20gal.

delmore
We've had the Red Tail (rts?) for quite a while. Why would we want to return it instead of transferring it to another tank or just keep working on getting the ammonia stabilized? We are thinking about adding some java moss to the tank. I'll send the link for the fishless cycling instructions to my husband. Thanks for your help!

Thanks for all of your help!!
Renee
 
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