Government in the hobby?

[Fractalis]

As you well know government has several regulations and limitations on the animals we keep? my question is why are they doing this?

many of you will say that the government wants to protect our natural resources

to you i have these questions; can you explain a way that the guppy, the goldfish, or the betta could possibly become completely extinct?

Can you explain how the asian arowanna, the devil's hole pupfish, or the galaxy danio could possibly become extinct if they were allowed to be kept (and bred) by hobbyists?

bringing endangered species into the hobby should be something that is supported by those who wish to save a species

captive breeding programs need to be implemented by hobbyists and the government needs to lift these regulations on order to allow this

 

[excuzzzeme]

It is not a matter of extinction of a species inasmuch as it is to protect our resources from "invasive" species that will decimate the natural resources we have.

The pet trade is a prime example of uncontrolled propagation. We have too many animals turned loose because they got to be too inconvenient to the owner or the care center. There are a few roadside "animal parks" that are going or have gone out of business and just dumped the animals. Private owners are doing this as well. When it comes down to feeding them or yourself the obvious choice is being made. Look at all the feral hogs in Texas, the grass carp in the Mississippi, the non-indigenous fish in Florida as well as snakes and lizards all point to a large problem. The pet trade is out of control and needs to be reined in.

It is unfortunate that a few ruin it for the many, but allowing the spontaneous and uncontrolled cross-breeding spells the demise of many natural species. The only prudent action by the government is to step in and clean up the mess. I feel that it has gone on far too long and can't be corrected and the general populace doesn't want to be bothered.

Everyone says "not my problem" and "not my fault" while they refuse to spay and neuter. If they won't stop the propagation, who will?

 

[captaincaveman9]

Exactly what Ex said. It's not so much to protect the fish in the pet trade from extinction, more to protect native species from being rendered extinct because of a few careless hobbyist who just release the "unwanted" or "overgrown" fish into the environment.

 

[Lab_Rat]

A lot of it has to do with the harvesting of the fish from the wild too. Now some of the legislation is outdated and should be revised (asian aros are very obviously available captive bred, it's ridiculous to not allow captive bred fish to be imported when it's not an invasive species issue) but the idea behind the law is to help prevent overharvesting of endangered fish from how I understand it.

 

[Fishfriend1]

The government is trying, in it's outdated way, to protect both the fish species and the natural enviorment. Their "heart" (insofar as they have one) is in the right place, their actions arent. Course, that doesn't stop me from being upset when I can't get pretty fish from another country/continent, but I do understand their intent. I doubt anything will cahnge until someone gets hurt or killed. Then we'll all start acting.

 

[jpappy789]

Go fishing in Florida...when you catch an oscar you'll know why :thumbsup:

 

[Jumko]

I totally thought this thread would be about govt. officials that were into fish keeping like us (I have no idea why). Having said that, anybody know if any previous president has had an aquarium in the white house before?

As not to derail the topic, part of the reason is to protect the local environment form invasive species. There's a reason why they snakehead and walking catfish are illegal to keep in certain states.

 

[Fractalis]

one reason why invasive species are flourishing is because there is such a small demand for them

if invasive species were cooked like they were in their home country or turned into fashion(snakeskin boots) we could turn the destructive nature of people to doing something good

seeing as how i have little trust in people i have even less trust of a government made up of people

there are many northern states that have outlawed the keeping of pirhanas because of misinformation and public fear of this species getting loose (not that they could survive)
when most of the public want something the politicians will give it to then whether it is true or not only to boost their approval rating

"never waste a crisis" is used by many politicians live by but when they dont have one they will make one up
often exaggerating facts or telling boldfaced lies

 

[Inka4040]

A lot of it has to do with the harvesting of the fish from the wild too. Now some of the legislation is outdated and should be revised (asian aros are very obviously available captive bred, it's ridiculous to not allow captive bred fish to be imported when it's not an invasive species issue) but the idea behind the law is to help prevent overharvesting of endangered fish from how I understand it.

Playing devil's advocate here, but the issue with allowing the trade of protected species is that legitimate specimens open the door for illegal harvesting. Obviously not an issue with big fish like the asian aro, where they can be chipped, but a legal trade in a fish like the devil's hole pupfish would only allow poachers to have a legitimate source from which to say their fish came. Practical example of this would be the trade in L046. It's not exactly visually identifiable whether or not the fish you're being sold are smuggled out of Brazil, or if they're CB adults, etc...

 

[Mgamer20o0]

Practical example of this would be the trade in L046.

thats not a very good example. its not endangered yet and the only reason why it will be extinct in the wild is they are building dams that will destroy their habitat.

a lot of aquariums work with members of the hobby to help keep species from going extinct. there are many others they hoping to get into the trade or in the hands of breeders since they will become extinct in the wild very soon.

As you well know government has several regulations and limitations on the animals we keep? my question is why are they doing this?

some of it is trying to keep them in the wild and out of peoples tanks. other is just misinformation on their part or lack of even know what they are signing. a bill such as save our natural fish bill but in there ends up be a list of fish being banned as well yet they think hey that sounds right and sign with out reading or understanding what they are agreeing too. they find banning something is a easy fix to a problem which i person dont think really works for the most part. 2 examples.... piranhas banned in cali http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/for/2552407226.html the person buying the illegal fish i assume more likely dump it vs risk getting in trouble. they could do a permit system allowing responsible hobbyist to apply. many of the fish that are banned would no way survive in the wild. case in point 2 maine has a large list of fish that cant be sold even though they have zero chance of living though the winter. i believe even like crystal red shrimp are illegal in manie.

many of you will say that the government wants to protect our natural resources

that is the goal but banning doesnt work. education is the answer.

can you explain a way that the guppy, the goldfish, or the betta could possibly become completely extinct?

they wont be. the laws are not about world wild care its about usa care.

Can you explain how the asian arowanna, the devil's hole pupfish, or the galaxy danio could possibly become extinct if they were allowed to be kept (and bred) by hobbyists?

dont know about the pupfish but the average or even the more advanced hobbyst wont be breeding the asian arows. its the farms that would do that. like i said before a lot of people who work in the wild making sure things dont get extinct work at getting the fish into the hands of breeders and the fish farms. i remember one of dr Paul Loiselle talks. he said how i believe it was the cherry barb was almost extinct until it got into the hands of the fish farms and now there more in the world then there ever been. just have to find its way into the right hands.

bringing endangered species into the hobby should be something that is supported by those who wish to save a species

there is a large part of the hobby who just keep fish thats fine. dont care about being endangered or looking to breed anything. there all ready a lot of this happening. i dont think its the gov place for it though. aquariums and colleges working together with breeders and programs such as the aca is the key.

captive breeding programs need to be implemented by hobbyists

they already are.