Help ! cloudy water - what do i do ???

D

Darwin

AC Members
Feb 4, 2006
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Australia
Hi,

I started up a 20G tank about 10 weeks ago and started to have troubles a couple of weeks ago. I am afraid that I am making mistake after mistake even though I am now trying to research info rather than just trusting the LFS.

Anyway...this morning my last clown loach died (the other one died a week ago) after suffering from bloating for a week. I hadn't moved him to the hospital tank (probably very stupid) because I didn't want to stress him and the other fish (two cories and four giant danios) were leaving him alone in his cave. This morning when I found him dead, the water looked a little bit cloudy so I did a 25% water change (I have been doing 25% water changes 2-3 times a week recently)

Then I dropped home at lunch and the tank was soooo cloudy you could hardly see the fish, so I did another 40% water change and moved the fish to the 5G tank temporarily. When I got home from work, it was even worse - it looked like a tank of milk.

My parameters yesterday were ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5-10 ppm, pH 6.8. I didn't measure any water parameters until this evening - after I had already done the 25% and 40% water changes but when I measured it after i got home from work, they were ammonia 0.25 ppm, nitrate 0, nitrate 10 ppm, pH 7.2. However, I didn't add any pH down (which i have been doing) to the water today when i did the changes and my tap water is pH 8 (but really soft; I have to add aquarium salts to get the GH up to around 5). So it is likely my pH was lower than 7.2 before the water changes.

I have now done an even bigger water change (80%) and added bicarb as well as aquarium salts to increase the kH. Up till now I hadn't thought much about kH (which was usually around 1-2, but after reading some of the threads I was wondering if that might be the problem. Now my KH is 4 and GH is 6 and my pH is around 7.4 ( I have put the fish back in the main tank because the ammonia content in the 5G had already increased to 0.5 ppm).

What I was wondering was - why the cloudiness; does it sound like i have killed my bio-filter ? And if so, what should I be doing now for the fish I currently have. Have I done the right things - or have I made it even worse (which is all i seem to be doing lately).

Any advice would be very very appreciated.
 
Most likely a bacteria bloom. For soom reason they seem real common with that size tank. If thats what it is then do nothing you just have to let the tank sit and it will clear up. I battled this for months and months and finaly when I listened and just left the tank alone for like a month no water changes or anything. Another thing that might help is adding some biological media to your filter. It gives the bacteria a place to go. How r your other fish?
 
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Ok. Start at the begining. You have ammonia you you are cycling for some reason.

Water parameters?

Why are you adjusting your ph?

What kind of filter do you have?
 
budrecki said:
Ok. Start at the begining. You have ammonia you you are cycling for some reason.

Water parameters?

Why are you adjusting your ph?

What kind of filter do you have?
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Also, why are you using salts to up your GH? What kind of salts? Please tell me it's not Epsom salts.

Test your KH, *that* is the important number. Not the GH. Please test for both in the tap water and the tank water and post both here. The KH is most important and if you have soft water as you say, I really really need that number from the tap ASAP.

Do not add salts. In fact, remove the salts with water changes. You don't want nor need that.
Do you know how much salt you have put in your tank so far?
Did you mix it *thoroughly* with a lot of tank water?
Do you have any other bottom feeders besides the clown loaches?

Thanks!

Roan
 
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The KH from my tap is 2. The salts I have been adding are aquarium salts that my LFS told me to add (not epsom salts). The container doesn't say what's in there but when i add it, it doesn't seem to do anything to the KH - just ups the GH.

As for bottom feeders; I have two two bronze cories in there.

This morning the tank doesn't look cloudy anymore - but i am measuring 0.5 ppm ammonia (nitrite 0, nitrate about 5 ppm, pH 7.2). I haven't seen ammonia in this tank for weeks now, so I think i must have stuffed up my biofilter (ceramic noodles in an Aquaone AR620 filter in tank lid thing). Oh and I am using dichlorinater/dechloraminator - my water supply doesn't use chloramines though.

Help please - I really don't want to kill anymore fish.
 
Oh - and the reason I am adjusting my pH is because my tap water is pH 8 and my LFS told me that I was doing too frequent water changes - making the tank too alkaline. I was doing water changes twice a week because my clown loaches were sick, possibly from effects of the nitrogen cycle but i didn't get a complete test kit when i set up the tank (LFS said no need). Anyway the LFS said that I was making the tank too alkaline with the water changes and I need to use pH down to get around this.
 
Sorry - about the bits and pieces reply. I keep realising I haven't answered all your questions. The KH in my tank is now 4 (I added bicarb yesterday when i did the MASSIVE water water change).
 
The KH from my tap is 2. The salts I have been adding are aquarium salts that my LFS told me to add (not epsom salts). The container doesn't say what's in there but when i add it, it doesn't seem to do anything to the KH - just ups the GH.
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Okay, stop with the salts. They are not helping the situation at all and could make things worse.

Your KH is too low and that's dangerous. I have the same KH. I hate it ;)

As for bottom feeders; I have two two bronze cories in there.
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Okay, do you know how much salt you've put in?

This morning the tank doesn't look cloudy anymore - but i am measuring 0.5 ppm ammonia (nitrite 0, nitrate about 5 ppm, pH 7.2). I haven't seen ammonia in this tank for weeks now, so I think i must have stuffed up my biofilter (ceramic noodles in an Aquaone AR620 filter in tank lid thing). Oh and I am using dichlorinater/dechloraminator - my water supply doesn't use chloramines though.
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Any ammonia readings from the tap at all?

Help please - I really don't want to kill anymore fish.
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We'll work this out together, kay?

Female Oh - and the reason I am adjusting my pH is because my tap water is pH 8 and my LFS told me that I was doing too frequent water changes - making the tank too alkaline. I was doing water changes twice a week because my clown loaches were sick, possibly from effects of the nitrogen cycle but i didn't get a complete test kit when i set up the tank (LFS said no need). Anyway the LFS said that I was making the tank too alkaline with the water changes and I need to use pH down to get around this.
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Don't adjust your pH, it causes instability and a stable pH is more important than a low one. I've seen much worse than a pH of 8. Fish adjust to pH, they don't adjust to constant changes as well.

Sorry - about the bits and pieces reply. I keep realising I haven't answered all your questions. The KH in my tank is now 4 (I added bicarb yesterday when i did the MASSIVE water water change).
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GOOD! Now you're cooking! Those were the two correct things to do.

At any point do you know if your pH dropped to 6? If you do not have ammonia in your tap water, and your pH did a sudden dip, then with that KH of 2 I would have to conclude that your pH crashed. In otherwords your KH went to 0 and there was no bicarbonate available for bacterial use. The bacteria stop mulitplying and eventually die off. Your tank begins to cycle again, but only if the KH is replenished.

Anything 3 dKH and under needs to be monitored closely. It will raise your pH slightly, but you need to add some crushed coral to your filter to buffer the KH up to at least 4. Bicarb is a short-term solution and should only be used to buffer until the coral starts to help.

My KH is also 2, pH 7.4 out of the tap. With coral I get 3-4 dKH and pH 7.6-7.8, so it doesn't buffer *that* high. It will still be fine for the fish.

So, get some coral -- aragonite sand/coral mix works fastest -- put it in a sock or nylon (pantyhose toe) and stick it in your filter. It will take some time for it to dissolve in your high pH. Possibly a week or two. Use baking soda and maintain at 4 dKH until you see it rise to 5 dKH on its own. Do a 50% water change and test it. If it's at 3 dKH, don't add baking soda and continue to monitor it. Add more coral/aragonite if need be. Try to get it to buffer to 4 dKH.

I'm going to cover the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates stuff in the next post.

Roan
 
Had to get the kids to bed and they aren't going quietly :)

Okay, went back and reread what you had done and where the tank was now. It seems to be getting back on track and you had already figured out that your KH was the problem and not the GH. Good going and I should have noted that earlier.

The cloudy water was bacterial bloom from the crash, as you suspected.

Clown loaches and other bottom feeders are pretty sensitive to water quality. You mentioned your loach was bloated, and I thought he might have gotten a dose of Epsom salts. Also possible that the aquarium salt may not have dissolved fully and he might have eaten some. That happens and I suspect I lost a cory cat to that type of thing. I know better now.

Try to keep the ammonia down to .25 and expect a nitrite spike soon. Don't worry too much about the salt for now. It will actually help with the nitrite toxicity when they show up.

Water changes to keep the nitrites and ammonia in check and everything should work through the mini cycle quickly.

Let me know if I missed anything, kay?

Roan
 
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