How to start over

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Piaroa

Registered Member
Feb 11, 2009
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Hi all :)

This is a definite two parter:

I recently lost a Betta to what I had originally accepted as fin rot. The dude in question -I called him Plato =)- was bought from a local pet store, not an independent but a large 'chain' one I guess. When I bought him he had what I believed to be a natural blemish on his tail, the shape of an eye, a few millimeteres long. My tank had been through a full fishless cycle and I was confident that the parameters were good for introducing him. However after a few days the 'blemish' had begun to break away and his tail was rapidly becoming seethrough in the 'eye' area. I used a fin rot medication ['King British' Fin Rot & Fungus Control] as soon as I saw the damage, but over the space of an evening his tail had worsened. This initial rot calmed, and his tail stopped fraying.

I then made a huge mistake in buying him a planted rock from the same pet store. I cannot be certain that this plant had been quarantined, and am concerned that it brought parasites into the tank (in many of the tanks with planted wood/rocks I had spotted dead fish - in hindsight I was very unwise to even consider buying anything from their tanks on that visit). A few days later I noticed tiny white creatures on his tail, not circular, almost pointed and moving about. This appeared to cause him much unease and I gave him a salt bath, which settled him for some time but less than a day later he was dead, after much lethargy and hovering near his heater.

I really am very sorry for the length of my post, I'm not sure what details to omit from this.. I'm incredibly upset that I wasn't able to help him more. I believe that I made a huge mistake in first buying a fish that had such a blemish on his fin [I've had coldwater fish in the past but my inexperience with Bettas had only just begun], and then introducing a plant to his tank when he wasn't entirely healthy.

Essentially, I am eager to hear if anyone else has encountered the small white creatures, and whilst I will wait before starting the tank up again, I would like to know how best to treat the equiptment and substrate to ensure that they are completely free of whatever caused my fish to die so quickly.

I would be so appreciative of any help or advice. My apologies again for creating such a lengthy post.

Best wishes,

Pia
 
Hi Pia, I'm so sorry about your fish :( I don't have any advice about decontaminating your tank, but I bet someone here will. Welcome.
 
Hi Pia.. welcome to AC. I'm really sorry you had that experience.

I guess it was that natural blemish idea that got you. And it's hard to tell when fish are already diseased at pet store. They certainly don't tell us at the time.

So now, just wash everything thoroughly using plenty of hot water. I stay away soap, disinfectants, bleach.. or other chemicals.

The white critters were probably flukes, maybe some other parasite. Don't know what the original spot was. Could have been a wound, tumor, infection, many things.

Wish you much better luck with your next fish!
 
Hi Pia, and welcome! Sorry to hear about your fish, and your experiences with what seems to be a bacterial infection and then later parasites.

From what you're telling us, it seems to have been skin flukes, fish lice, or some other freshwater parasite, most likely hitch-hiked in from the plants and wood.

Your intentions were good, but you were met with bad conditions at the local fish store, without the knowledge equipped to differentiate, and properly treat the illnesses before it was too late. I'm glad that you are here, and asking for advice on how to proceed.

You'll likely receive an abundance of good advice here, some of which may differ from one another. There's no one right way of doing things in the fish hobby.

I'll recommend 2 ways on cleaning and getting your tank ready for your next fish. Seems like you've gone through your cycle, and it must have taken a long time. If you're ok with starting over, and cycling your tank again, then you can use one of 3 things to steralize your tank. You can use Bleach, salt, or Potassium Permanganate. These 3 items are relatively safe, but will disinfect your tank and in high enough concentrations, will kill all living matter in your freshwater tank, including the beneficial bacteria that you have been culturing during your cycle.

The second option is to eradicate only the pests. This method would be considerably shorter than starting the cycle again, but it does have it's risks. You may end up not killing all the pesks, and run into the same problem again. Bacteria, fungus, and parasites all need a source of food. Good bacteria feed on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Bad bacteria, fungus, and parasites feed on flesh, fins, bones, internals, etc. Without fish, there would be none of the "bad" stuff. Salt in concentrations of 3 tablespoons per 5 gallons over a period of 2 weeks would kill off most freshwater parasites, fungus, and bacteria. Turning the heat up to 92F would kill most parasites within a week. Lower tempuratures would kill off bacteria faster.

Whichever method you choose, you can always ask questions here and seek advice and help.

There's plenty of knowledgable people here, willing to help one another. There's also a lot of threads on choosing healthy fish, plants, and how to quaranteen and treat for signs of illness.

One thing I've learned about this hobby is that it's always evolving, and new things and new methods are always invented and shared.

Hope this helps!

Shawn
 
Hi Pia: Welcome. As someone said in another thread, none of us are experts on everything. You will gets lots of advice from well-meaning individuals and you will have to pick and choose what you want to listen to.

Don't feel too badly about buying a fish that succumbed to illness. We all try to pick the healthiest looking ones, but you never know.

I didn't notice, did you say how big your tank is? Also, is there any kind of substrate in there?

I will make 2 recommendations. First, it's a really good idea to set up a quarantine tank or QT. Some people never do it, but it is a good idea. Just a 10 or 20 Gallon with all the basic stuff, where you can keep new fish for a *month* and watch them and medicate them easily *before* they go into another display tank with other creatures. You can put some plastic (PVC) pieces of pipe in there for them to hide in, but plastic is really easy to clean between fish stays.

Now I'll tell you what I would do with that main tank of yours. If you have a substrate, I would first vacuum/siphon/water change in the tank, and try to discard all the gunk in there. Take out any live plants if you have any. Take out any clay pots or anything porous. I would also take out the gravel if it's painted and discard, if it's not painted, I'd take it out and rinse thoroughly in hot water and spread it out in the sun to dry. You can probably leave it in place too, but I wouldn't.

Then I would do one of 2 things. If it's a smallish tank, say under 30-40 gallons, I would fill it up with water and add a few cups of bleach to it. Plain bleach, no additives and let it sit for a couple of hours. Lots of people on this board don't like bleach, but my kids were born in Europe and I used to sterilize baby bottles with it, and it doesn't bother me at all. Run the filter if it's a simple one. I wouldn't want to advise on a large canister one. When you're done do several water changes, discard whatever cartridges you have in your filter and put in new ones. Keep filling it with water and changing water until you can't smell bleach anymore. And then do a couple more.

Or use Potassium permanganate. I'm a great believer in it, but lots of people aren't. It's a dangerous chemical and you have to be really careful with it, wear gloves etc. But if you respect it and are very careful with it, it's good for a lot of things. The dosage for nuking a tank isn't that important. If you're medicating fish, that's a different story, and it's critical to use the exact right amount or you will hurt or kill the fish. If you want to nuke a tank, just fill it with water and add enough KMnO4 to color the water purple. Not clear purple that you can read a newspaper through, but purple that you can't read a newspaper through. And leave it in there for an hour. Then add some Hydrogen Peroxide, you know, the stuff you put on cuts and scrapes until the purple goes away and it looks clear again. Keep in mind that it stains purple and may leave the silicone tinted--can't be helped. Then do a bunch of water changes. Wear gloves and if you can lift the whole tank up, i'd rinse it in the sink with plain hot water. If you can't lift it then just keep doing water changes, lots of water changes over and over and over and over. Run the filters to flush them out and change the cartridges.

And then I'd start over. If you're interested in learning how to use KMnO4, send me a PM and I'll explain how to make a stock solution that you can use for other things.

Keep in mind that several microscopic "bugs" don't survive in the tank once the host (fish) is gone away, but I wouldn't take any chances......I'd start fresh, one way or another.

Don't lose heart. Keeping aquariums and fish healthy is a learned skill, and we've all made mistakes and had problems. You'll have more success next time. You may also find that certain stores have healthier fish than others.....

This is a nice group and people genuinely want to help and be supportive. We're rooting for you.

Frogdog
 
I have to say I'm overwhelmed by the advice and wellwishes from you all. :) I'm new to these forums but had no idea that people would have the time to respond so thoughtfully/thoroughly to my post!

To Mr. frogdog: my tank has a substrate of small black gravel and sand, and is 30litres. I'm not sure how many gallons that is, I have limited space so I opted for the largest I could afford in terms of price and space. It was home only to the betta so he had it all to himself. :)

I definitely plan on getting the gravel as clean as possible, I'm wondering if I shouldn't get rid of as much of the sand as I can? I must admit I'm not certain that sand was an appropriate choice. The mixture was two parts gravel to one part sand, so there isn't a colossal amount in the tank.

Since my tank is probably on the smaller side, your first recommendation of using plain bleach will probably suit my situation better [even though I do quite like the idea of slightly purple-stained silicon :grinyes:]. Given the size of my tank, what amount of bleach would you recommend? I have a relatively simple filter, and plenty of spare filter pads that I could sacrifice to the task of getting the bleach eventually out of the tank. What is the result of using bleach on the filter's parts, do you know? Will I have to do any cleaning/maintenance on the filter itself besides removing the pads after the bleaching phase?

Ooh heck. More questions!

Thankyou all so much for your interest and advice, this really is an excellent forum and I feel far more confident about fixing this mess after reading your posts. :)

When I do eventually have conditions suitable to add a new fish, I hope to find a betta breeder to buy from, since the only local pet store has left me feeling quite terrified of buying anything!

Many thanks again,

Pia :)
 
Piaroa said:
To Mr. frogdog: my tank has a substrate of small black gravel and sand, and is 30litres.

Since my tank is probably on the smaller side, your first recommendation of using plain bleach will probably suit my situation better. What is the result of using bleach on the filter's parts, do you know?
Ooh heck. More questions!

Thankyou all so much for your interest and advice,

Pia :)
Click to expand...

Hi Pia:

I'll tell you what I think, and others may make more or other recommendations. This is what I would do:

Since the tank is only 30 litres--about 8 gallons--I would take everything out of the tank, siphon off all the water and get rid of your gravel/sand. If you can't afford to get rid of it, then put it in a bucket and rinse it a lot with really hot water, as hot as you can get it out of the tap.

Then I'd fill the tank most of the way up and add some plain bleach, enough to bleach a few nasty t-shirts. Enough so it smells like bleach and looks like water with bleach in it. pour it in, glurp glurp glurp, a few cups. Then top up the tank with water so it's up to the lip of the plastic or whatever is around the top. Take the filter cartridge out of the filter, throw it out, put the filter back in and turn it on. Run it without the cartridge--assuming it will run without the cartridge--and just leave the tank alone for an hour or two.

If you move water back and forth to/from the tank with a bucket or something plastic, fill that up with water too and add bleach. Let it sit too. If you're not using a bucket, but filling it from the sink then don't worry about the line *to* the aquarium. When the tank is done sitting, turn off the filter, then if you use a siphon, siphon the bleach/water into your empty bucket or sink--this will clean the siphon.

Now do a few water changes. Keep taking water out of the tank and filling it up and gain. Each time run the filter for 10-15 minutes--without the cartridge. If it's a simple filter, this should just disinfect the inside of the filter where the water flows. Keep doing this until you can barely smell any bleach. A slight bleach smell may linger, but you have to get all traces of the bleach out of everything before you can start over. So keep doing it until you are satisfied that there is no bleach left. If you can, even lift up the empty tank and wash it out in a shower or sink with hot water, but you'll still have to run the filter with the bleachy water and clean water several times to clean that out too. The filter should be fine. When you're ready to go, you put a new cartridge in it. If it won't run without a cartridge then put a clean cartridge in it when you start and then put another clean cartridge in it after there's no more bleach. Bleach won't hurt plastic. It's used to sterilize plastic baby bottles. All it will do is kill everything, including the beneficial bacteria that you need in a healthy fish tank, which is why you will have to totally start over.

When it's clean, so clean that you would put your infant child in there to take a bath, then you're ready to start over. And start over.

Everything else that you took out of your tank, I would wash with just really hot running water NO SOAP and a new plastic brush.

For buying fish, explore your town. My town has 6-8 pet/fish stores but there's only one where I really trust the owner to have pristine tanks. But you can always get a fish somewhere else that looks good and put it in a quarantine tank. And there are local breeders, and there's mail order too...

Don't despair!! I hope this helps,

Frogdog

P.S. Don't be ashamed of a small tank. Good things come in small packages.
 
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