I think my Ich is returning. :mad2: I noticed my red-finned shark flashing again last nite. Also, I think, a juvenile Elec. Yellow lab. I just finished treating for Ich ~2 weeks ago. Previous treatment was 14 days of RidIch+ with daily water changes and temp at ~85. I continued RidIch for 4 days after last spot was seen. Then I continued with daily water changes for another week. I'm thinking of trying salt treatment? I don't yet see any spots on any of the fish, but last time the first thing I noticed was the shark flashing. I'm thinking I might be able to catch it early if I start treatments now. I was wondering if the salt is safe for my snail? Also, since there is currently no salt in the tank how fast do I add? Should I wait until I see spots? Begin water changes now? :help:
Ich Again - Salt Treatment?
- Thread starter nlmadison
- Start date
If your fish are flashing it's likely some of the parasites escaped with their lives and will begin the cycle all over again. This ich article will help you with the salt treatment which I highly recommend. I used salt treatment on my loach tank when I first set it up. No probs. No ich.
Your snails should also be fine. When I cycled my brackish tank it was full of snails from a piece of wood from another tank. They all survived until I added my puffer.
Your snails should also be fine. When I cycled my brackish tank it was full of snails from a piece of wood from another tank. They all survived until I added my puffer.
Thanks John. I've begun treatment w/salt. Did 8 gal. (=25%) water change and began adding .25 tsp salt/gal/hour as recommended. I also started keeping a log on Friday (before I knew the Ich was back) so I have a baseline starting point for comparison. I'm keeping a record of Ammonia, Nitrate, Water Temp., Water changes, Ph before and after water change, and general observations (such as added salt, water clarity, fish condition & behavior, etc.). I hope it will be a good reference for future problems. :dive2:
TheMightyQueenPixie
Best Invention EVER!
Cause and effect
You need to start looking at the cause of these outbreaks not the effect...Healthy fish are able to ward off a number of parasites if their immune system is functioning normally...You could be doing everything right, but if your stock is low grade, or overly stressed, they will be prone to more infections..Good luck with the ick thing and I hope you get to the bottom of this re-occuring problem.
You need to start looking at the cause of these outbreaks not the effect...Healthy fish are able to ward off a number of parasites if their immune system is functioning normally...You could be doing everything right, but if your stock is low grade, or overly stressed, they will be prone to more infections..Good luck with the ick thing and I hope you get to the bottom of this re-occuring problem.
I would guess the four days after the last spot wasn/t quite enough.
The fact that you are picking up on the flashing without seeing spots is good, but flashing doeasn't gaurantee diagnosis. If you run salt treatment full course then ich should be eliminated, then if you still have flashing something else may be amiss. I had a guppy tank I knew was ich free, and I saw occasional flashing for a full year before I pinpointed the beast and killed it. Since Ich is the most common and the time frames of your previous treatment were a little short (arguably) then I would treat for ich first and then go from there. eliminate the most common problems first and then look for the harder to find stuff.
Dave
The fact that you are picking up on the flashing without seeing spots is good, but flashing doeasn't gaurantee diagnosis. If you run salt treatment full course then ich should be eliminated, then if you still have flashing something else may be amiss. I had a guppy tank I knew was ich free, and I saw occasional flashing for a full year before I pinpointed the beast and killed it. Since Ich is the most common and the time frames of your previous treatment were a little short (arguably) then I would treat for ich first and then go from there. eliminate the most common problems first and then look for the harder to find stuff.
Dave
Queen Pixie
I believe my problem is this ... I bought a used tank which was set-up and running when I purchased it. It came with 3 fish. 1 pleco=7", 1 red-finned shark-6" and 1 molly and all necessary accessories. Unbeknownst (sp?) to me it also came complete with Ich. The fish which came with the tank were the only ones to show ich spots. I believe didn't see any for the first 3 weeks cuz the water temp was ~72 degrees. The tank was is miserable shape when I got it. To call the gravel filthy was an understatement and the tank was crusty with calcium/lime scale 1/4" thick in places. I cleaned it as best I could, but I did need to get the 3 fish back into the tank as I had no other place to keep them. I'm thinking that the Ich may be resistant to Malachite treatment from repeated exposure so I'm going to try salt and heated water. If this doesn't work, I'll probably toss gravel and scrub the tank w/salt start over. I don't know what else to do. I've never before had Ich and I've kept fish for over 20 yrs. :sad:
I believe my problem is this ... I bought a used tank which was set-up and running when I purchased it. It came with 3 fish. 1 pleco=7", 1 red-finned shark-6" and 1 molly and all necessary accessories. Unbeknownst (sp?) to me it also came complete with Ich. The fish which came with the tank were the only ones to show ich spots. I believe didn't see any for the first 3 weeks cuz the water temp was ~72 degrees. The tank was is miserable shape when I got it. To call the gravel filthy was an understatement and the tank was crusty with calcium/lime scale 1/4" thick in places. I cleaned it as best I could, but I did need to get the 3 fish back into the tank as I had no other place to keep them. I'm thinking that the Ich may be resistant to Malachite treatment from repeated exposure so I'm going to try salt and heated water. If this doesn't work, I'll probably toss gravel and scrub the tank w/salt start over. I don't know what else to do. I've never before had Ich and I've kept fish for over 20 yrs. :sad:
Ahh !!!! more light is shed.
Malechite is very effective, and ich (to the best of my Knowledge) won't build up resistance very well. However, one of the major downsides to meds (IMHO) is how they work. Malechite and many other effective parasite meds work by breaking down protiens. The more organic matter you have in the tank, the more protiens there are to "use up" the meds effectiveness. Organics in the tank are IMO the largest vairiable working against meds, and if you adoprted a mess, you stand to have high organics. Since we don't really know the protien levels in a tank, the dosages reccomended are arbitrary, as is the time between dosage. Additionally at lower temperatures treatment needs to be extended. I reccomend a minimum of a week ( I personally go 14 days) after the last visible spot in a tank at 80+ *F in a tank at 72* F I would think 2 to 3 weeks would be more the safe period. I do not know exact time frames based on temp, but I do know that coldwater ponds with ich can take some really extended treatment periods to finish off ich completely. So despite the effectiveness of Malechite, the odds of your first treament being successful are slim.
Salt is not effected by organic levels, and therefore that vairiable is removed, additionally, salt is far less stressful than extended use of meds, and therefore the treatment can be maintained at full strength for as long as needed plus a week or two for insurance. Remember that the reason meds irritate fish is that they attack protiens. Dosage amounts are designed to be enough to kill ich without being enough to kill your fish. Most fish can and will tolerate salt use quite well. Most of the ill effects of Salt are long term weakening and damage, not short term irritation.
The next thing I would add is do not let ich discourage you. read the article linked above, or research others with good accurate information, and then take the ich out permanenetly. Ich is a pain, but it is also an issue that you can deal with and put behind you. tearing down a tank and sterilizing it is more work than treating for ich 5 times would be (IMHO).
Good luck and keep us posted
Dave
Malechite is very effective, and ich (to the best of my Knowledge) won't build up resistance very well. However, one of the major downsides to meds (IMHO) is how they work. Malechite and many other effective parasite meds work by breaking down protiens. The more organic matter you have in the tank, the more protiens there are to "use up" the meds effectiveness. Organics in the tank are IMO the largest vairiable working against meds, and if you adoprted a mess, you stand to have high organics. Since we don't really know the protien levels in a tank, the dosages reccomended are arbitrary, as is the time between dosage. Additionally at lower temperatures treatment needs to be extended. I reccomend a minimum of a week ( I personally go 14 days) after the last visible spot in a tank at 80+ *F in a tank at 72* F I would think 2 to 3 weeks would be more the safe period. I do not know exact time frames based on temp, but I do know that coldwater ponds with ich can take some really extended treatment periods to finish off ich completely. So despite the effectiveness of Malechite, the odds of your first treament being successful are slim.
Salt is not effected by organic levels, and therefore that vairiable is removed, additionally, salt is far less stressful than extended use of meds, and therefore the treatment can be maintained at full strength for as long as needed plus a week or two for insurance. Remember that the reason meds irritate fish is that they attack protiens. Dosage amounts are designed to be enough to kill ich without being enough to kill your fish. Most fish can and will tolerate salt use quite well. Most of the ill effects of Salt are long term weakening and damage, not short term irritation.
The next thing I would add is do not let ich discourage you. read the article linked above, or research others with good accurate information, and then take the ich out permanenetly. Ich is a pain, but it is also an issue that you can deal with and put behind you. tearing down a tank and sterilizing it is more work than treating for ich 5 times would be (IMHO).
Good luck and keep us posted
Dave
TheMightyQueenPixie
Best Invention EVER!
nlmadison said:
Definitely toss the gravel...You never know what you get in it, and well, I guess you found out the hard way...Vinegar will remove the hard water stains and bleach will kill everything...Unless you are really in love with the fish, you may want to heal them up and trade them..That will give you time to take the tank down and start over with a clean tank...Various "stock tanks" sold at Feed stores make a good, sturdy temporary tank..ALways come in handy when you need a quicky quarantine...Good luck.