Ich question

Z

zippy

AC Members
Oct 26, 2004
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Hi everyone. I have a question about treatment for ich. I have been treating with heat (~85 degrees) and salt (2 tsp/gallon) in my 25 gallon aquarium for about 4 days. I recently went to my local lfs to pick up some more aquarium salt (I know its more expensive than table salt, but I personally am more comfortable using this product), and while speaking with one of their employees (who has been very helpful over the years with advice/suggestions on fishkeeping, and so far has not given me any bad advice), suggested using a product called "Quick Cure" in addition to and at the same time as using the heat/salt treatment. Is this recommended? Can I go ahead and add 1/2 doses of Quick Cure while I have the temp raised and salt added to the tank? I have tetras, corys, a shrimp, and a bristlenose cat. Will the Quick Cure in 1/2 dose affect these guys at all? Please help as I would like to get rid of this problem ASAP.

Water params:

0 ppm ammonia
0 ppm nitrite
less than 5 ppm nitrate
pH 7.6
Current temp ~85-86
 
Your tank sounds a lot like mine! I wouldn't use the Quick Cure myself. It can take weeks to cure ich, and it can be eradicated with frequent water changes (gets rid of free-floating parasites and those multiplying in the substrate), salt, and heat. I'd try continuing your current treatment for another two weeks or so - treat for at least a few days after you see the last spot disappear from your fish.
I posted in the general forum today asking about treating ich in a heavily planted tank with invertibrates, but I didn't ask about meds - my gut says it's not a good idea to use an anti-parasitic in a tank with shrimp and sensitive fish like tetras and catfish.
 
I am very sorry that i cannot answer your whole question, but i just have to say, that once i was treating my tank for ich, while using a half dose and slightly elevated tempurature (but no salt) and it killed my corydoras within a hour. is there any way that you could put them in a hospital tank and either somehow treat them seperatly (with something special for them), or see if they dont come down with it at all in a months time or so? I dont know about the other ones although, i just had goldfish and corys in my tank.
 
The life cycle of ICH dictates that we can't get rid of it quickly. It cannot be killed while it is on the fish, and in most cases cannot be killed while it is encysted in the substrate either. There is only one small stage where it is vulnerable, and all treatments should be geared towards that stage. You simply do not need additional meds, and meds are hard on fish. I have yet to see a fish that handled meds better than salt even a 1/2 dose. furthermore double medicating usually causes more than twice the stress. You LFS employee needs to sell products for a living and therefore it is his job to reccomend a cure in a bottle. Quick cure is not snake oil by any means, but it certainly isn't needed. Wait for the ich to drop off of your fish, continue heat and salt for a week at the minimum after the last sign of ich, and you will be done permanently. If you decide to use the quick cure you should use it for a week minimum after the last sign of ich on your fish as well.

The heat does two things:
#1. most important in this case, It accellerates the life cycle of ich and gets it off your fish quicker
#2. at 86* F Ich cannot survive this is good, but there is always a chance of a cool spot so I don't trust it completely

The salt at above 5 ppm will kill the ich

The quick cure should also kill it

None of them will kill it except in the free swimming stage

Lastly, the advice to move to quarantine is arbitrary. Ich will live unnoticed in a fish gills, and therefore you really should treat the entire tank that is infected. otherwise there is a good chance ICH will continue to survive in the tank, and eventually you will get another big outbreak.
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

Dave
 
When I first noticed the ich on my fish, it was limited to a couple of fish and only on fins, maybe a couple visible on body. One thing I've noticed over the last couple days is that the fish are showing higher numbers of cysts on their bodies. Is this normal? Is this one of those instances where it has to get worse before it gets better? The fact that it seems to be getting worse is what is making me consider a medication in addition to salt/heat.
 
It can get worse before it gets better, and it isn't unusual for it to do so. The free swimming stage of ICH is very tiny and cannot be seen. Once it locates a host it attaches and feeds, as it grows it appears as white salt grains on the fish, it then falls off the fish and lays in the substrate (or whever it lands) and multiplies inside the cysts. once multiplied (several hundred times) it hatches out of the cyst and goes free swimming for a host again.

So in the earlier days of detection, there may have been many more little parasites than you saw. also the first you saw hatched from something, and depending on stage and time before discovery there could have been ICH hatching by the hour. once treatment was started freeswimmers would most likely be killed. but the other two stages are invulnerable, so they will continue until all ich reaches the freeswimming stage and is killed by the treatment.
Dave
 
Thanks, Dave. I have been doing daily water changes at about 20%, and adding salt to the new water. Do I continue to do frequent daily water changes, and if so, how much water should be changed? 20%, 30%, 50%? I don't want to stress my fish anymore than I have to.
 
agreed with Signus on the concentration, I always target 2 tsp and that gives me a wide margin for error in either direction.

As far as water changes, they can be helpful provided they are done with water of the same temp and ph etc.... Vaccuming during water changes is very helpful with ich. Since it lays in the tank to multiply, any that you vaccum out will be less to kill later. This is not a surefire way to stop ich, but it definately curves the numbers in your favor, and leaves less for the salt and heat to kill.

Water changes as a rule are almost never a bad thing, I'd do them as frequently as you can during treatment, probably if it were me I'd do about 30% at a time. This will stabilize the tank, keep things super clean, and generally reduce stress possibilities to your fish. On the flip side to say that water changes are needed during treatment would be a bit of an exaggeration. They aren't needed per se, but are quite helpful.
Dave
 
Thanks everyone for your help. I've been checking my fish every day for signs of cysts on their bodies. This morning, the one fish that had SO MANY on her body is now free of parasites (that I can see). Yeah.......

So, I undersatnd I must keep up the heat/salt treatment for quite a while (10 days?) after the last cyst falls of the fish. It seems that time is coming quite soon.

So far, I haven't lost any fish. I'll keep you all updated. And, thanks again!!!!
 
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