Ideal conditions for retaining black

ShoGold is a popular premium quality goldfish food.

Bentonite clay is a clay used mostly for lining ponds which contains nutrients to improve fish health. I have heard rumors that this clay helps goldfish to reatin their color, so I will mix in some with my substrate, it certainly couldn't hurt.

I have made the overflow for automatic, slow water changes. The R/O I mentioned, although I'm sure would do more harm than good for these fish, was mentioned as an option because I could install it easily in my fresh water input line.

By UV light, I did not mean a UV sterilizer, but a UV emitting plant light designed to mimic natural sun light. I cannot put my goldfish outside because herons would eat them. Besides, I want to enjoy them inside.

My first chiller will be an experiment with just an igloo cooler and some medical ice packs. These packs will stay cold for 48 hours, so changing them out daily will maintain a fairly constant temperature. I've got a small wine cooler laying around, so creating a better chiller is also an option.

I have already began building a pvc, undergravel water movement system as well. I know that most of this is not necessary, but part of the fun in this hobby for me is attempting to create an ideal environment for my fish. I have kept mostly biotopes in the past, and have enjoyed seeing the reactions of people who never realized how beautiful a fish like bleeding heart tetras can be when given the proper environment in which to live.

My only problem now will be designing an attractive decor for my fish. As I said, my tanks in the past have been biotopes, usually with largish tanks and very small fish. Since fancy goldfish are in a sense man made, I want to put them in a man made environment. I am considering constructing a loose structure of homemade foam bricks.

-Shay
 
Plain and simple its lack sunlight that will affect color change not water tempature. Goldfish that are kept outdoors have much more pigment than ones indoors If there are sudden changes in tempature then yes it will affect but not to the point of total loss of black. Think of it as a tan, there is no way better to explain it.
 
Da, thanks for the clarifcation...you're statement just puzzled me - and by the way I totally agree. :D

avoxo - it's not quite that "plain and simple" - just a contributing factor, natural light is best but today it can be simulated pretty well indoors. WaterQ has alot to do with how fish look aswell.... probably part of the reason Shay is thinking about using Bentonite Clay - trace minerals.

Shogold is a very good food from what I understand. It's supposedly well balanced for overall fish health, high in protien - but I don't think I would feed it exclusively, variety in the diet is a "good thing" - I agree with Da.

Shay...I don't believe you need a chiller, also agreeing with Da. Temps of 80*F aren't to much of a concern as far as Moor's go. If you can keep the O2 saturation up, feed small amounts through the day, maintain a good maintenance schedul then there shouldn't be a problem during the heat of your summer months. I would suggest that if you experience lower temps in the fall/winter/spring, let the tank experience those changes - like a seasonal cycle - change your feeding schedual and foods to accomodate these lower temps. This imo will only benefit the fish - they may be "man made" but are still carp - and somethings just don't change as far as genetics go.
I've got an automatic overflow sysem set up too keep everthing nice and constant. My only problem now is how to lower the Kh just a bit without lowering my 7.8 ph too much. I am going to experiment with running my Carbo Plus on the lowest setting to see if I can achieve a good balance that way.
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What is the KH of your source water....? IMO anything from 100ppm to 300ppm is fine - we keep ours around 150 - 200ppm.
I think what you're trying to accomplish is very good....and it's great that you find it fun. Everyone has a different opinion on how to keep goldfish....with most of us that stems from experience and research. We all find what works for ourselves and our fish. Good Luck and I hope you post back to let us know how it all goes:)
 
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Thanks for all of the input guys.

I was rereading this thread and realized that I had never posted a response to why I believe that the high temperatures contributed to my fish's losing color.

I might be wrong about this, but my assumption is based on rumors I have heard which have been verified by my own experience. I have been warned by others to *never* use a heater with black fish, and have seen my black fish lose color when no other variable besides temperature could have possibly been different from the lfs conditions.

I watched one red and black four inch telescope at the lfs for three weeks before deciding to buy it. In that time, the fish lost no color. Within a week of having the fish home, I had noticed some color loss. I assumed that diet or water perameters were the problem, did lots of research on goldfish feeding and conditions, and ended up with a very large, very healthy, almost completely orange fish.

This is not the only fish with which I have experienced this, nor is it the only time I have heard warnings about temperature and black goldfish.

I'm don't remember my Kh because I've been doing SA for the past few years and skipping the tap water all together. I'm going to try the Carbo Plus before I add any fish just to see if it doesn't provide an east way to slightly lower the Kh without over affecting the ph.

-Shay
 
Good post, Shay...

and keep us updated, I'd be interested to hear how it goes.

When I started keeping GF, my LFS owner was the source of much of my wisdom, and she was usually right-on. One of the things she told me was that moors should at least be kept in pairs and that they needed the light (I was keepiong plastic plants in my tanks at the time, so the light was only on at nights when we'd have company and when I was watching TV...). I have three in a 29g and they've stayed as black as when I bought them, but then, I just pulled them out of the $5 tank at another LFS, so it's not like they were the most amazing of specimens.

I've never done the pond thing (if I tried to put in a pond before I got my flowerbeds in order, my wife would kill me...). But it seems to me that one reason why ponds work well for all fishes (I've seen paradise fish, catfish and cichlids in ponds) is that they're far more variable than our controlled environments indoors. The light is different: the sun moves across the sky, and the amount of daylight is different. There are different, seasonal foods available, the water temp changes. There's rainfall, there's drought.

Hard to achieve that in a tank, but I would think that you can keep your colors darkest by keeping your fish in mating condition. Breed the fish. Simultaneously with lowering the water temps, add your softer, RO water and feed a live/frozen diet.

I would also think about keeping a couple more fish than three. GF are social fish. I would think they'd do better with a couple more tankmates. You would need to start out with 4-6 fish to get a couple of breeding pairs anyway, unless your seller has already sexed them...

Oh, and by the way Avoxo, welcome to Aquaria Central, home of the blackest GF keepers on the Internet:)

Val
 
:D Hello, first and most important TJ you are correct in what you said about the water Q, but if everything is where it should be (ph, kh, temp, variety of foods) in most cases fish will lose the color black if kept inside out of the sun "plain and simple" :D . I have kept goldfish on and off for over 20 years and have had my bouts with the loss of color and lost.

Shay trying to mess with the kh will only bring problems. From your post it sounds like your kh is fine. Keep in mind that most if not all goldfish are breed in outdoor ponds, fed with live or fresh foods and the full affect of the sun on them. Genetics can affect the color change. An attempt to simulate a full sun spectrum in a tank can be achieved but not the same as the good ole sun (like Val said). I would also like to see how you make out. Please keep us updated.

Val thanks for the welcome to the blackest GF keepers on the net.

Avoxo
 
I have had Black moor fish for over 15 years now. Each one has lived for approx nine years and I have looked after them with great care and expense. All four of them slowly changed from black to orange/gold in a matter of months after putting them in the tank. To be honest, I thought that was just normal, but from what I am reading, it is unusual. The one I have at present is around six years old, but is changing colour again, from orange/gold to silver. It just started happening yesterday but is extremely rapid. Any thoughts?
 
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