Iron and Brush algae

H

hatton3

Where did Noah put all the fish?
Jan 23, 2003
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Lexington, KY
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Can an excess of Iron in the water column cause beard/brush algae? I've got flourite and I dose Iron. I've really got a fight on my hands with this stuff.

Of course, it all started when I upgraded my lighting to compact flourescents. :mad: I wish I could have had a more gradual change, but it was impossible.

I'm also slowly raising the temp over the next 3 weeks in preparation for a pair of discus. I'm sure that this has also had a major impact on the bba because of the decrease in c02 at elevated temps. (now at 76 degrees F) Another factor that I'm sure is contributing the the bba is I'm using 90%RO water and 10%tap for the discus.

I've been using a method suggested by the Krib, and that is to trim off all infected leaves, to put true SAE's and Amano shimp in there. They also suggested monitoring and balancing light, c02 and nutrient levels. They suggest starving the BBA by limiting phosphate and nitrate in the water column. My nitrates are 8 ppm, phosphate is .1ppm, and I dose small amounts of potassium and trace elements daily. This article states that keeping the nutrients within these parameters will allow enough for the plants but not for the BBA.
55 gal. with 2 65 watt compact flourescents
ph is 6.7 (~30 ppm c02)
KH is 4
0 Ammonia or Nitrite
plants pearl every day.

I've seen some suggestions about going on and dosing potassium, nitrate and phosphate to allow the plants to outcompete the algae - I'm just scared that if I do this, I'll be over run with BBA. Would it be best to dose these macronutrients with a substrate fert tablet? For the time being, I've stopped the temperature raising process until I'm stabilized.
 
When you consider that algae take only minimal amounts of nutrients and growing plants take many times more to prosper, you can see that the route of starving out the algae seems to be a losing proposition.

I am curious as to why the expense of RO water though. The people around here who raise discus use regular water. I'm not sure about 80g Joe here on the forum but he certainly has a gorgeous planted discus tank. :)

It is difficult to use RO and still do large water changes. You're going to need to do cleanings and large water changes to dilute down all those algae spores.

It seems to me your phosphate level is a bit low also. I try to keep mine above .5 ppm.

I'll tell you my one exp with BBA. My sister and I live together. She has a tetra tank that had been badly infested for months with the junk. I have a golden algae eater that I had gotten before I heard they get mean and I moved it in to her tank. It cleared the dang thing up in two days and I haven't seen any since. The fish even cleans up the decorations. You can take this for what it's worth. I'm told that it's just mayhap a bit of luck as to whether you get a mean fish or one that is more docile. This particular one is now about 5 inches, still cleaning, and still scared of the tetras. I also hear they get quite large but it must grow slowly. It hasn't grown more than half an inch in 9 months.
 
I'm convinced that the reason I got BBA was BECAUSE I wasn't dosing KNO3, and PO4. When I added my CF lighting I had the same problem as you. Not sure about your nutrients, but mine were out of whack and I added the extra light without thinking about balance.
IMO, you need to keep cutting off any of the BBA that you find on plants. If there is any on filter tubes, heaters, rocks etc. pull them out and bleach them. A good bleaching won't hurt them. Just wash them real well afterward and then dip them in fresh water treated with tap water conditioner to get rid of the bleach.
I don't know your tank, but I'm guessing that it's not heavily planted. If you have access to an outlet where you can pick up some good floating nutrient eaters like Salvinia, Frogbit,
Pennywort etc., load up on those and any other cheap, fast growing plants like wisteria, egeria(sp?) etc. In order for the plants to out-compete the algae you have to have the plants in the tank. If your plants are pearling you're doing the right things but I'm guessing you need more of them.
You need to continue to feed K,N, and P. You can use either K2SO4 or KCl for potassium. Since time is of the essence, I suggest that you go to the grocery store and pick up KCl. It is in the product NU-Salt. For a 55 you can dose 1/4 tsp. per 20-30gal. Most stores have it. Your nitrates are good at 8ppm. If you are dosing for nitrates keep it up to that level or maybe 10ppm. Your phosphates are LOW at .1 ppm. They need to be around 1.0. If you're not dosing now, go to the pharmacy and pick up Fleet's Enema. It's dirt cheap and will do a great job for you. Bring it home an put three drops directly into your tank. Wait 30min. and test. If it's still low add 2-3 more drops etc. until 1.0ppm
I did not want to throw phosphates into my tank with the mess that I had at one time, but I trusted Tom Barr and did what he told me and.....NO MORE BBA, PERIOD. I have not had a bit of it since I started balancing my tank. I had to do a black out to get rid of mine, but you may not have to from the sounds of it. You don't have that panic sound to your thread.
VERY IMPORTANT!!!! I can't stress this enough. Before you add the ferts above, do as big a water change as possible. 50-60% is not out of the question, paying close attention to the substrate and cleaning up any standing mulm and gunk that's collected there. If you're going to dose ferts you should do a weekly 50% water change there after.
All this stuff worked for me and continues to work. I hope you have success with it. BBA is a curse.
Len
 
Well, I have a RO unit left over from when I kept a reef tank. It's a 100 gpd, so I can get 25 gallons pretty easily for a water change. The local guy here in town who is a biologist said that he has kept discus in all tap, 50/50 tap and RO, and 100% RO. He felt that they did better in the 50/50 or 100% water but was not necessary. One of the other reasons that I have started using it is that I get a phosphate reading of >3.00 ppm out of the tap. I felt that that was too high of a reading. Plus, the water is softer than the rock hard limestone water that we have here in KY.
I am/was going by Tom Barr's instructions and was doing well until the power outtage we had back in February, and then I got green water when i updated to compact flourescents. So I felt that I was overdosing the ferts and I've pulled back on the ferts. Then this BBA has come up. I can't win, either BBA or green water. :( (green water from too high of phosphates? [3.00ppm])
I do have the raw chemicals potassium sulfate, potassium nitrate, and potassium phosphate that I bought from litemanu.com (per Tom Barr) It would appear that I don't need to dose nitrates right now. Just get my phosphates up to 1.0 ppm and keep dosing trace, potassium, and iron.
I have been doing 50% water changes since January.

Umm, I think that my tank is fairly heavily planted. Every bit of substrate has plants in it or covering it to the point where it would block out light for plants below, except for the rock in the center of the tank. I've got tropicas, ozelots, Amazons, java ferns, amazon compactas, baby's tear, ludwigia, etc. I don't think that I could put another plant in there. Do a search on my name and I've posted pictures about 5 weeks ago I think. The tank has grown quite a bit since then.
I agree with you, Tom is great - he really helped me out a lot when I started the plant tank thing.

With regard to algae spores, will running my UV filter kill those?
 
The only thing I see as being a problem is your phosphates being low. With BBA you really need to be aggressive in eliminating it.
I don't know whether your UV filter will kill it or not, but frequent, thorough water changes, including gravel vacing the surface of the substrate will help a lot.
I know that at one time Tom advocated bleaching plants in a 20:1 solution of bleach to get rid of it. It's the only option of his that I didn't follow. I went the black out route instead and it worked for me.
Len
 
Iron does not cause algae.
PO4 does not cause algae.

I add this stuff to pretty high levels, I don't get algae. So do many folks.
I'd call the water company up and ask for the PO4 levels in your aera delivered. This will tell you if you need to add PO4 or simply do a water change. Also ask for the N-NO3 levels.

From there, you'll know what to dose.

Generally, BBA= poor CO2 levels.
GW= you might not have enough CO2, did a large replanting, added a bunch of fish real fast, something that produced a spike in the NH4 levels it does take much nor that long, to get the GW going. Once they start, they hang on for dear life.

But you have a UV and GW is easy to get rid of that way.

Running the UV is good after a pruning, water change etc for a day or so.
But that's about it.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Thanks to all for the input.
I don't run the UV all the time, but I'm glad that I've got it for emergencies.

Tom, I've noticed that I'm more prone to get the GW after a water change. Why is this?? I use SeaChem Prime, and I would have figured that it would take care of the NH3 and NH4 in the tap water - I guess not. I haven't added fish in ages. Same for replanting. My ph is 6.6 tonight, and the KH is 4. (just tested) That would give me about 30 mg/l which would seem about right. C02 provided by pressurized cannister.

I dunno, I follow everything to the letter and I still have troubles. I also measured phosphate and nitrate tonight. (after a 60% water change) I have 10ppm of nitrate and 2.0 mg/l of phosphate. I dosed potassium sulfate 3/4 teaspoon, potassium nitrate 1/2 teaspoon, but left out the phosphate as it appears that I have enough already. Also dosed iron and traces.

I also trimmed a lot of the BBA out tonight, and cleaned with bleach all infected rocks and filter parts. Also siphoned off the mulm. Tank looks better.

Tom, do you think that I can do without the blackout and just let the BBA die slowly, or do you think that I should go with the blackout?

Thanks! I really appreciate all the moral support!
;)
 
I just read some info that said phosphate can give a false positive reading when calculating c02 because of its buffering capacity. Could it be possible that I've got less c02 than I think?
 
I'm not Tom, but IMO you are doing all the right things. Keep the test readings in the prescribed ball park and keep the water "clean" and the BBA will probably go on it's own. Just keep after it. When you see it cut it out. I found it to be tenacious, but it can't co-exist with the right nutrients, plenty of happy plants, good CO2 and clean water.
Len
 
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