I saw this bit of info online and was curious: http://www.bettatalk.com/buy_supplies.htm#java%20moss
Java moss to reduce nitrites?
- Thread starter NotGumbel
- Start date
Any aquatic plant that is growing can do that. I didn't think that aquatic plants could use nitrites as a source of N but found an article by Diana Walstad that says they can.
"plants can use nitrite as an N source" source
The easiest nutrient for them to use is ammonium and that must be broken down by bacteria to become nitrite. So the question is, are the plants just using the ammonia before it turns into nitrite? I think the answer is most likely yes.
"plants can use nitrite as an N source" source
The easiest nutrient for them to use is ammonium and that must be broken down by bacteria to become nitrite. So the question is, are the plants just using the ammonia before it turns into nitrite? I think the answer is most likely yes.
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As I understand it, Plants cannot use nitrite present in the water column. But As Captain Hook Points out if the plants are using ammonia and ammonium, there will be less nitrite generated in the tank.
I am Always Mildly Skepticle Of Diane Walsted until I can Confirm Her Claims Via Other sources and experiments (Just my Personal Take On some of her Printed information).
Dave
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I don't think java moss would be very effective in taking up nitrites. Slow growing plants don't seem to use up nutrients in the water like the fast growers do. I've tried using java fern to lower nitrites in my tank with little success. Anacharis on the other hand (a very fast grower) works marvels in keeping nitrite out of the tank.
Confusion in reasoning, abetted and contributed to by Ms.Waldstad's interpretation of published data, are both going on here IMHO.
Dave's reservations match my own, and my reasoning as well. The Betta site ref'd is confused on process - the fact that nitrite is not found in the Betta bowls with Java Moss, and is found in those without moss, does not in any way show that plants uptake nitrite. It shows that nitrite is not present. The real finding would likely be that the bowl with moss had greatly lowered to undetectable ammonia/ammonium, and therefore the NH3/NH4+ was not converted to nitrite, and therefore nitrite was not detected in the bowls. That is normal for planted tanks.
Ms Waldstad's cited data is from peer-reviewed literature, and therefore is to be given at least the benefit of the doubt until shown to be not repeatable. Her conclusions drawn by herself have not been subject to either peer review or even editorial review, so are subject to discussion and evaluation. The concensus is that nitrite is far too toxic to be taken up by plants, and no mechanisms have been found for safe uptake and/or internal transport of nitrite. Comparable mechanisms for ammonium and nitrate uptake and transport are widely found and well studied and reported. Yes, when plants use nitrate as a nitrogen source, they must reduce the nitrite through nitrite to ammonium, but this highly localized within the cell and totally enzyme-bound, not therefore ever involving free-floating nitrite even within the cell.
Dave's reservations match my own, and my reasoning as well. The Betta site ref'd is confused on process - the fact that nitrite is not found in the Betta bowls with Java Moss, and is found in those without moss, does not in any way show that plants uptake nitrite. It shows that nitrite is not present. The real finding would likely be that the bowl with moss had greatly lowered to undetectable ammonia/ammonium, and therefore the NH3/NH4+ was not converted to nitrite, and therefore nitrite was not detected in the bowls. That is normal for planted tanks.
Ms Waldstad's cited data is from peer-reviewed literature, and therefore is to be given at least the benefit of the doubt until shown to be not repeatable. Her conclusions drawn by herself have not been subject to either peer review or even editorial review, so are subject to discussion and evaluation. The concensus is that nitrite is far too toxic to be taken up by plants, and no mechanisms have been found for safe uptake and/or internal transport of nitrite. Comparable mechanisms for ammonium and nitrate uptake and transport are widely found and well studied and reported. Yes, when plants use nitrate as a nitrogen source, they must reduce the nitrite through nitrite to ammonium, but this highly localized within the cell and totally enzyme-bound, not therefore ever involving free-floating nitrite even within the cell.
Thanks to all that replied -- the claim didn't sound reasonable IMHO, and the way you explained that plants absorb ammonium etc before it can become nitrites seems to make sense.
DaveinSF, if you mean less as in zero, then yes pretty much.
Couple more interesting quotes from that article.
"However, the chemical reduction of nitrites to ammonium requires less of the plant’s energy than the chemical reduction of nitrates to ammonium. "
"Thus, it is not surprising that when Spirodela oligorrhiza was grown in media containing both nitrate and nitrite, it preferred nitrite (Fig. 3)."
Of course this isn't java moss. And I'm sure this is also more technical than NotGumbel wants to get into. My theory is, any live plants in a tank are better than none for the harmful waste chemicals.
Couple more interesting quotes from that article.
"However, the chemical reduction of nitrites to ammonium requires less of the plant’s energy than the chemical reduction of nitrates to ammonium. "
"Thus, it is not surprising that when Spirodela oligorrhiza was grown in media containing both nitrate and nitrite, it preferred nitrite (Fig. 3)."
Of course this isn't java moss. And I'm sure this is also more technical than NotGumbel wants to get into. My theory is, any live plants in a tank are better than none for the harmful waste chemicals.