Just want to say hi (new to the hobby today)

J

jeep8rus

AC Members
Aug 17, 2005
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0
Las Cruces, NM
Hello all, I just wanted to say I'm really exicted now that I've finally made the plunge (har har) into the hobby.

To be honest, I barely avoided buying a 10 gal starter tank regardless of what I had read. I just returned to school and was concerned about the difficulties in moving an established aquarium. After asking the LFS their opinions I settled on a 20 gal.

I'm fishy cycling now with a small 1 1/2" Goldfish and a 1 1/2" Betta. I didn't wait a full 24 hours before I purchased them. I did however, wait until the temperature had stabilized and had been cycled via filter for several hours. I also got a general test kit to keep an eye on all levels, water cycling, etc.

I've already bookmarked this site because it's so informative. The archived information has already been extremely helpful with the species handling information, and I'm sure that more of my questions will be answered in the future.

Thanks for an awesome site,
-Russ
 
Also, goldfish are coldwater fish, and bettas are tropical fish.
 
Congrats! Fun, isn't it?? :bday:
Do you know what you will be keeping in the tank once it's cycled?
The goldfish will outgrow that tank, i'm afraid. It would be a good idea to start looking Now, for a private pond to move that fish to once it's a little bigger.
what did you get for a filter? Live plants? decor?
One of the Best uses for this forum can be asking questions about fish before you buy them.
 
Welcome to the hobby.

However, Goldfish and Bettas are not compatible species, nor do either of them handle cycling very well. Others may disagree with me on this but I personally feel that cycling with fish is cruel. When you have your ammonia spike the fish's body parts are being burned and causing pain. Then you enter the nitrite spike stage, during this it causes suffocation to the fish. Even if they do survive to see the cycling through, its pretty like having been through torture. Most of the time you will lose the fish before cycling is complete. Fishless cycling is just as easy, and much more humane as no fish are involved.

Goldies shouldn't be kept in water above 72 or so, while Bettas should not be kept below 73-74 (they can survive in lower temps but they don't do well).

As said, the ten gal is way too small for the goldfish. Generally when you purchase a fish, you should always buy the fish based on what size it will attain, not what size it currently is. This way when you buy the fish it will not outgrow the tank.
 
Hello welcome!!
Already you can see there is some stuff to change in your tank! That's how it goes sometimes. this place is great for research and advice. You must have read about cycling. Now you want to decide tropical or cold water. there are a lot of lists that tell what a species needs for a hibitat on the internet.

I disagree with Nataku...I would do fishless cycling, yes, but if you don't as long as you do water changes daily and keep your ammonia down your fish should be ok (it should live that is). As for the pain...that is up to you to decided if you want to cycle with a "throw away" fish. It's all a personal decision.

good luck! Its a great hobby! Keep the questions coming!
 
Well, I agree with NatakuTseng about fishless cycling. And he is right, of course, about the incompatability issues....
I just want to say, dont let it chase you off.
You have apparently chosen fishy cycling with the benefit of at least Some information. your reading and asking questions puts you ahead of plenty of ppe starting out. While I personally would advocate thatyou cycle fishlessly in future, you certainly arent the only person, new to the hobby or otherwise, to use fish to cycle.
The other, issue, putting the betta and Gf together in your 20 gallon, well that is simply an easy newbie mistake to make.
You can either make the cycling process as easy as possible on your fish by staying on top of water changes, as lisa sed, and make plans for the goldfishes future care.
Or I suppose you could get a little tank for the betta, find a home for the goldfish and start over fishless.
either way, (or some other) i look forward to hearing how it goes.
 
Welcome to the hobby and congrats on finding a place to research things ahead of time.

As others have said if you are going fishy cycling make sure to do at least a 25% or more water change daily for the first 4 weeks at least. Otherwise another option nobody mentioned yet is Bio-Spira. It's live bacteria that is sold at some fish stores. For a 20 gallon tank I used Bio-Spira and I think it costed me $11. It will cycle your tank completely in 48 hours to a week and it's fine that the fish are in there already. If you can find it, I honestly won't cycle without it. It's way too useful for a minimal cost IMO.

As far as the fish, you have already seen incompatability issues there. But hey, as others said it is really great that your out there looking for information. Good luck and hope to hear from you on your progress as the tank gets cycled and stocked.

Curtis
 
Hi Jeep8rus! Welcome to AC, I hope you have a great time participating in the learning that takes place here.

I disagree with the statement that goldfish and bettas are incompatible due to temperature, but I do agree that they are incompatible, because an adult goldfish can and will eat a betta, or just kill it for no aparant reason. Goldfish are not 'coldwater' fish specifically, they are temperate water fish.

This means that they can survive in coldwater (even if it's slightly frozen on the surface), and also tropical temperatures (as long as it's a gradual change such as the changing of seasons).

I have a blue goldfish in my tropical community (180g). I also know that there are others on these boards that keep goldfish in their tropical communities. Glimmering Goldfish suggests that the aquarium temp. for goldfish be kept around 74F.

There are a lot of public and private ponds here in SoCal that have goldfish and koi in them, and during the summer, the water reaches 85F easily. But the splash from small fountains or waterfalls aerates the water properly.

Basically, goldfish can thrive in warm water, but they will need more oxygen. As long as you have an extra air stone connected to an air pump, or there is a lot of oxygen injected by your filters outlet, you should be fine. However, your goldfish will need a much larger tank than the 20g. Even feeder goldfish grow very large (around 24" easily).
 
Thanks for all the responses! This is going to be long...

I was really unclear as to whether the betta was tropical or not because the information I read was that it can be kept in water ranging from 64-82 degrees Farenheight. I'll look into getting the betta a dedicated small tank (not a bowl).

I know the goldfish is a coldwater fish and my tank is currently about 73 degrees. I had read also that the betta could get hostile towards other colorful fish that were of a similar body structure, but I assumed that since the goldfish has more mass to it's body that it would be okay for them. So far, they've ignored each other.

I understand the Goldfish can get as large as 12", and I'm already thinking ahead on that and considering options. I had heard that they take a very long time to get that large though (years?) and their lifespan is around 10+ years?

I'm keeping in mind how large the fish will grow because the retailer displays can be deceptive. For instance, if I didn't already know Koi grow larger than 18", I could see how a newbie could buy one.

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As to cycling, I am going to be changing at least 20% of the water every day to reduce the stress on the fish. I'm not thinking of the fish as "throw-aways" or "starter" fish. I'd like to keep them around and not just use them for a science project. Curtis, that's a great tip on the Bio-Spira. I'll see if my LFS has it (and get it if they do).

Ntaku, I hadn't heard that the fish suffered that badly in my reading. If I had, I'd be doing it fishless.

The several different publications I read said using one-two fish in a moderate sized tank wouldn't stress them that bad as long as you take care of the tank. In the future I'll pursue the more humane method and do it fishless.

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The tank setup I've done this:
20lbs of medium sized blue gravel (rinsed thoroughly before I put it in the tank). Like I said, I almost bought a 10 gallon until reality hit me...

A medium size piece of driftwood that is placed vertically in the tank (has a base attached to keep it that way

Two medium "Shipwreck" halves (Bow and Stern) to provide little hide-aways. The benefit was they had several small fake plants (leafy style) so I wouldn't have to spend as much on more plants.

Two small artificial plants (short, with many leaves)

One medium artificial plant that is tall and thin

I didn't want to try messing around with real plants until I've been in the hobby for at least 6 months.

I just have the sticker type thermometer on the outside of the tank and an external Whisper 20 bio-filter. The kit came with a heater, but I'm not planning on runing it just yet. Oddly, the instructions for the kit said to just assemble the filter and place it on the tank, but when I read the filter instructions it said the suction tube should be 1" off the bottom or 3" off the bottom for goldfish. The tube it came with only hung down about 2" into the tank so I got an extension to place it 3".

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I'll take suggestions for other coldwater fish that are colorful. I'm open to suggestions. Unfortunately, I only have Petco and Petsmart here (Las Cruces, NM). I would like to add some smaller fish in pairs, but I'm concerned about spawning and having to find homes for baby fish.

I originally wanted to go straight for seawater, but after I read on that I realized it would just be better to start slowly with freshwater so I don't end up killing fish.

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Whew...!

Thanks again for all the help and keep the suggestions and comments coming!

-Russ
 
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