Low KH, Low GH, high PH. What to do?

T

Trumpee

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Jan 15, 2008
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I have just set up a new tank and am ready to start cycling it but I'm experiencing a water chemistry challenge. I have well water with a commercial grade softener for my house. Testing the GH, KH, and Ph here are the results:

Water after passing through softener:
GH <= 1 degree/17.9 ppm
KH <= 1 degree/17.9 ppm
Ph = 7.9 – 8.0

Water before passing through softener:
GH <= 7 degree/125.3 ppm
KH <= 1 degree/17.9 ppm
Ph = 7.9 – 8.0

I've been using a neutral regulator from SeaChem to try and stabilize the Ph at 7.0 but after several doses over 5 days, it’s come down only a few points, seeming to resist the change. I understand this Ph change resistance is usually due to a high KH providing that stability. However, my KH is measuring extremely low. I'm hoping someone might be able to help me make sense of this. I would prefer not to have to mess with Ph constantly (cost and time) rather provide a stable environment without chemicals (healthier for the fish). Thinking ahead as well, when I do water changes, If I can’t get the new water Ph down immediately to equal that of the Ph in the tank, I’m afraid the water addition will increase the tank Ph too much, too quickly and be harmful to the fish.

I’m planning to build a community tank 7.9 - 8.0 for a general community tank does sound a bit high from everything I have read.

Questions:
If the KH is so low, why would the Ph be so resistant to change?

Lastly, what recommendations do you have? Get the Ph down and KH up? If so, how? And how would I get the Ph down quickly with water changes before adding to the tank? Or, perhaps get away from the community tank idea and build a tank that does better with higher Ph water?

Thanks.
 
You do have interesting water...

There are community fish which you could go with. You are absolutely right when you mentioned that you don't want to mess with raising/lowering pH. Unless you have an RO unit and can produce you own water, changing pH is a pain.

Have you looked at rainbow fish? There are some just gorgeous fish available to hobbyists now either mixed/hybrids from local fish stores, or special orders for pure strains on aquabid. (rarefishatlax is the handle of a seller I'd recommend.)

Did you let your tap water - not run through the softener - sit out overnight before you tested the pH? Usually tap has a higher pH after the co2 gasses off.

If you are really set on lowering pH, you might experience some success if you add peat moss to your filter. Fluval makes a strong brand, with your low kh you might see better results than most do... Just stuff the peat/balls into a nylon stocking and put it in your filter. Do all this before adding fish though, you'll need to monitor your pH very carefully as it just might plumet.

You'll also need to keep up with water changes because your kh is so low. The biological filtration - the cycle process - does use up kh (carbonate) and if you don't keep at least a moderate level, you'll have pH crashes. (Not good for the fishies).

Cathy

PS. Make sure you ph testing kit isn't way old in case you have been getting false readings.
 
Have you tested water after it has sat out for 24-48 hrs? some areas add temporary buffers to make acidic water less acidic to preserve pipes..whatever they are using seems to gas off.(seattle does this )

the water has little kH or buffering and may drop as a result of the waste the fish produce.
 
Trumpee said:
I have well water with a commercial grade softener for my house.
Click to expand...

Trumpee

I believe that you will know the answers to your question when you respond to "what is in the crystals which you place in your water softener?"

Kinda kidding here but the serious induction of NaCl and KCl into your tank's water will have very unpredictable effects.

You did not indicate that you had chlorination for your well water and as such I presume that your well water is free of pathogens.

If your raw well water hardness is within the limits necessary for your plants and fish then just bypass the water softener.

Having said all of the above if you have very, very hard raw water my only suggestion would be a RO/DI unit. (Please note that aquarium units are not as expensive as the household RO/DI units which you have probably checked into as they do not require a reservoir.)

TR
 
Trumpee I have the exact same situation as you. My tap is very high in pH but GH levels are extremely low due to our water softener. As you can imagine this was quite a problem for a cichlid tank I was in the process of setting up. Then someone recommended testing my kitchen sink's tap...low and behold it wasnt run through the softener. Try finding a faucet like that or bypass it manually.

the pH should not be too much trouble for regular community fish unless you get something very sensitive to water chemistry or its a wild strain. livebearers will even thrive in those conditions...as will africans.

There are ways to raise Kh yet I have not used them so I do not know the effects.

"To raise the KH without raising the GH, add sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), which is baking soda. 1/2 teaspoon per 100 Liters raises the KH by about 1 dH"

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html
 
to raise kH you can simply add crushed coral to the tank is simply place crushed coral in a nylon or similar bag and hang it in the filter. over time it will release calcium carbonate into the tank raising the kH,
 
star_rider said:
to raise kH you can simply add crushed coral to the tank is simply place crushed coral in a nylon or similar bag and hang it in the filter. over time it will release calcium carbonate into the tank raising the kH,
Click to expand...

but wont that also raise Gh? Im not sure if thats what the OP wants...but I dont know
 
You have all the outside hose connections piped to raw water in a standard softener set up. The hose connections is a place for you to get raw water. The high salt content of home water softener water is not just salt.
If you are getting the regenerating salt that fights iron stains or similar regenerating products, it contains additives you may not want in your tank. Take a good look at what is in the salt you put in your softener and make sure its something you would want in your tank. If not, use only the raw water for your tank. A GH of 7 is not so hard that it would harm normal community fish and a pH as high as 8 is acceptable for most fish unless you are trying to set up a breeding program for soft water or acidic waters fish.
If you decide to go with RO/DI, make sure you do not connect it to the softener, it will have higher solids content for your RO to deal with than the raw water.
 
OldMan47 said:
You have all the outside hose connections piped to raw water in a standard softener set up. The hose connections is a place for you to get raw water. The high salt content of home water softener water is not just salt.
If you are getting the regenerating salt that fights iron stains or similar regenerating products, it contains additives you may not want in your tank. Take a good look at what is in the salt you put in your softener and make sure its something you would want in your tank. If not, use only the raw water for your tank. A GH of 7 is not so hard that it would harm normal community fish and a pH as high as 8 is acceptable for most fish unless you are trying to set up a breeding program for soft water or acidic waters fish.
If you decide to go with RO/DI, make sure you do not connect it to the softener, it will have higher solids content for your RO to deal with than the raw water.
Click to expand...

It should not have a higher solids content if you are not using a salt that has iron additives. Softeners work on the ionic transfer method. Swapping cations. (calcium/magnesium for sodium chloride. Having a higher TDS is a misnomer. The TDS level is not impacted by a softener, either positively or negatively. An RO or DI removes the TDS. And ALL Ro's require the minimum pretreatment of a water softener (so the hardness does not clog and coat the membrane) and chlorine removal ( as to not damage the membrane). Otherwise the membrane is wasted on the larger particles, it wears out sooner, and your product water is subpar to desired.

The real answer here is bypass the softener. Disconnect or bypass the chlorine system. If you have iron bacterias or other bacteria, use a different water source. Or else the hardness will be the least of you worries in the tank.
 
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