morons buying fish

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

let people buy what they want. the convience store clerk has no responsibility when someone stumbles out of their car for a case, do they?

You bet your buns they do...It is a 30K fine in Canada if you sell to an intoxicated person AND you can be held criminally/financially liable for any damage or death they cause...Im pretty sure the laws are similar in the US.

Honestly, without the Morons of the world, LFS would close and the prices would be extreme for even the most common species...Only the priveledged would be able to afford fish and equipment...

 

[UncaBret]

Honestly, without the Morons of the world, LFS would close and the prices would be extreme for even the most common species...Only the priveledged would be able to afford fish and equipment...

I hate to say it, but you are so right! And it goes for things other than fish, as well.

 

[tbone-ike]

Sure, ultimately it's the consumer's responsibility to educate themselves but I think the Pet Stores have ALOT of responsiblitly as well!!

The consumer is paying a premium to have the help of a good sales person at the store. Part of being a good sales person is understanding how to properly educate your customer, up to and including, knowing some of the common challanges and misconceptions in your market! Selling fish should be an easy one in this area!

What size tank? How long has it been up? What other fish do you have? Most of us know of a good LFS that asks these questions. Then if the customer says, "I don't care, give me the 10 baby cichlids for my ten gallon anyway", then I guess we say a prayer for the fish and hope they make it through the return period so the store doesn't have to pay for the customer's poor decision.

I personally think that calling these customers "morons" is a bit harsh! These aren't people who want to torture and kills fish. They want to enjoy the beauty of these creatures or get a nice fishy pet for their kids! They don't know it warrants hours of reading to properly take care of an aquarium. They need someone to help them understand and become good fish keepers. The store and employees are getting paid to be the first primary part of this process. If they...the STORE.....know what they know about their area of expertice, know the common mistakes of the customer, and refuses to help them, who's the bad guy?

I think if you see an excited customer pickout out fish and the smiling employee scooping fish after endless fish in the bag without any dialog with their customer....you're calling the wrong guy a "moron".

Just my opinion.......

 

[Emg]

Yeah, I agree about calling customers "morons" being a bit harsh......ignorance is not the same thing as stupidity. If it was, you'd be calling a 5 year old a moron because they can't diagram sentences..

I think that most people who are buying fish and tanks for the first time ARE looking at the tanks in the lfs and thinking there can't be much to it. Put water in a tank...then fish....easy ! That's what I thought the first time I tried it...never gave chlorine a thought, frankly ! Needless to say...3 or 4 feeder goldfish later (in a 2 quart little tank..no airator..no less) within 5 days....caused me to believe that keeping fish was just not for me.

I'm so glad when about 5 years later my daughter asked for a fish tank for Christmas. That time I bought a 10 gallon starter set...that included a filter, heater, etc....AND....water condition, along with some general information about starting up a tank...including info on cycling AND stocking !! Well....I've been off and running in the hobby ever since !!!

Please don't call newbies "Morons"....it's not nice for one.....and I find that most folks I talk to in the lfs are very willing to listen when I offer helpful suggestions as I'm passing by and see a woman with a 1 quart tank in her hand looking at the gouramis and asking her little daughter which one she wants....Been there....done that !!! I'm willing to bet that most of the time it's the attitude you approach them with that makes all the difference !!

 

[indiginess]

You bet your buns they do...It is a 30K fine in Canada if you sell to an intoxicated person AND you can be held criminally/financially liable for any damage or death they cause...Im pretty sure the laws are similar in the US.

ok, but its a judgement call at best, and i doubt many cases hold up in court. unless field sobriety testing is administered, and part of employee training, it has little, if no, bearing on any case with a decent attorney.

and how would you define intoxicated? 'intoxicated' is a relative term that can only be defined according to administered tests coupled with set standards. neither of these are available to the average convenience store clerk. if a guy is overweight, his hands are shaking, and he gets a can of Mountain Dew, is the clerk responsible for heart failure should it occur within the next few hours? no offence, but sounds like another case of passe canadian legality.

"was he drunk?"
"objection"
"was he intoxicated"
"define intoxicated"
"BAC of .08"
"i don't know, i didn't test him"

all in all, it comes down to moral responsibiliy, which in the case of booze and fish, is not the vendors concern.

i'm not out to make a big deal of it, but i do feel the need to defend my words if possible.

very apt comment on the effects of moral responsibility on the marketplace, though.

 

[Roan Art]

You bet your buns they do...It is a 30K fine in Canada if you sell to an intoxicated person AND you can be held criminally/financially liable for any damage or death they cause...Im pretty sure the laws are similar in the US.

It's possible the laws exist down here, but if they do they are not enforced at all in most counties.

Some of the things we Canadians take for granted just do not exist down here. It's a strange place at times. I find it hard to get used to and I've been down here for 11 years.

Roan

 

[Intermision]

I know they have those laws down here. I'm not sure if they enfoce them or not, I just don't know.

 

[patoloco]

This is a moral problem like many other, in which we can argue and speak for hours (or type ) and nothing will change a lot.

Unfortunately, people whose work in based on animal must see them as merchandise. If you work with cattle (¿cows?, not too good in English), you can not think of them as pets and love them, since you have to kill them and turn them into meat. Same is you grow ducks, chicken, or fish. You can give them a good life and kill them in the less painful way possible, but you must do it.

If the money to pay your employees, and to feed your family comes from the "ignorant moron" that comes every two days and buy fish because the other died, the LFS owner or manager will sell him the fish.

Also, if the owner of a fish stores listen to a hobbist discouraging a potential client to buy fish talking about cycling, heating, filtering, lighting, mainteinance, cleaning, aclimation, water chemistry and anything else I might be forgetting, the hobbist might end up with a tank crashed over his head and a foot print in his derriere. (Now I speak french :Angel: )

What would happen if everybody's fish would live for 15 years. There would not be a bussiness and every live fish would be expensive. For example, I drive a 1968 Datsun. I love that car and would not change it for anything. What if everyone else had 40 year old working cars? Car companies would have closed years ago. The same applies to fish stores.

When I see people getting fish with out knowing a bit of fish keeping, I feel bad but have to swallow it. I can not stand in front of a fish store with a "FISHLESS CYCLING RULES" T-shirt and giving fliers to new costumers. Unfortunately, that's the way thing are.

The best I can do, is to give my fish the best life conditions I am able to. Too bad, thoguh.

 

[TheMightyQueenPixie]

Sorry to jack the thread but "passe canadian legality?" Actually many of our laws regarding drinking and driving are modelled after cases and precedents set in the US... It is absolutely enforceable and does end up in court-OFTEN...Completely bankrupted a large restaurant chain about 15 years ago here and hasnt let up since...

I dont disagree with you totally though...A clerk/bartender/however has to make a jusdgement call on the spot...It is much easier to do in a restaurant then in a corner store...BTW Quebec (and possible AB now, not sure) are the only provinces I am aware of that allow corner store beer sales...One of the major resons being the issues revolving around controlling intoxicated people..I was a bartender for 10 years, and the harsh penalties was one of the reasons I got out of it...I had too little control and too much at stake.

SORRY FOR THREAD JACKING!!!

 

[Roan Art]

Sorry to jack the thread but "passe canadian legality?" Actually many of our laws regarding drinking and driving are modelled after cases and precedents set in the US... It is absolutely enforceable and does end up in court-OFTEN...Completely bankrupted a large restaurant chain about 15 years ago here and hasnt let up since...

That's how it is down here, Pixie. Some laws exist only on paper and people constantly argue about how their constitutional rights are being violated or screaming about how "Big Brother" shouldn't dictate to the people and so forth.

Man, you should have heard the fervor about the goldfish bowl ban in Rome.

It's just a different mind set and I've gotten used to it. Somewhat.

Whoops, I hijacked too. sowwy! :OT:

Roan