oh, OK. Hmm, if there have been no new fish or plants introduced, it might not be ich as some folks have already stated. couldn't tell you what it is, though. sorry.
need some advice re: cichlid
- Thread starter biogal76
- Start date
is the same equiptment used for both tanks? any live food or new additions to the other tank recently? my big jaguar cichlid just has a big 6" PVC pipe T-connector. this is a great hide for him and takes up relatively little space. i would take out everything except the gravel and a 6" PVC pipe T-connector. i dont like aquaclears, rarely hear much good about them. i prefer fluvals and for HOBs whispers. undergravels almost dont count, especially in cichlid tanks where they can be more harm than good. i use quick cure all the time (sort of, not at home anymore, but at work) without any big issues with it at all. i dont think its as bad as some of you have come to think of it.
reptileguy2727 said:
Nope, the tanks are not connected in anyway. the PVC pipe thing is a good idea. Rockys HOB is kinda old, we were discussing replacing that as well, but hadn't decided on upgrading the tank to 75g yet. UGF can cause more harm? how so? I know it gets NASTY down there quick...
i didnt mean the filtration hooking the two tanks together, i meant is any of the supplies used on both tanks, net,s water changing equiptment, etc. if any of it is than it is possible that if it was introduced to the other tank it could have been transferred to rocky's. my 15" jaguar cichlid is in a 75. he has gravel, the 6" PVC pipe T-connector, 250 watt stealth heater, 2 whisper 60s, and a fluval 405. it is better to have way too much filtration (which is really impossible) than too little. as far as the gravel goes the book i read that said it can do more harm than good didnt explain it at all. cichlids are notorious diggers and with an UGF if they expose or even get close to the grate, the water takes the path of least resistance, which makes the entire UGF ineffective. so if you do go to a 75 dont waste your money on UGF, spend it on other filtration. UGF arent worth their cost in a community tank anyways in my experience. you cant clean below the grate unless you break down the entire tank, which you shouldnt do. honestly if i were setting up a 75 for a red devil i would do it exactly like i did for my jaguar cichlid, including the filtration and water change schedule.
ohhhh....duh. Yeah, no none of the supplies are mixed, Rocky has his own stuff. That makes sense about the UGF...he is certainly an earth mover. And he likes to uncover the little lids that block the holes where you could put additional filtration...and take them off and play with them. I will relay this info to my coworkers so we can decide something together. Thanks again, and I will post water parms tomorrow if I can get on this site at work, if not when I get home.
If your "ROCKY" resembles this you've probably got a 'midas' or possibly a hybrid of the species.
Good idea on checking the water parameters, till you figure out exactly whats going on, a 40/50% W/C can't hurt. Good Luck
tonytheboss1 said:
Good idea on checking the water parameters, till you figure out exactly whats going on, a 40/50% W/C can't hurt. Good Luck
That looks like Rocky to me.
I'm going to do a big water change today, testing the parms before and then later this afternoon. I'm also going to sloooowly start raising his temp today too, probably take most of the week to get it to his temp, and then worry about raising it for the fungus/ich whatever we have. water params this morning:
temp: 75
ph: 6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20-40, the color is between the two on the card
He doesn't appear to have any ich spots today, his fins look good, he's acting normal as well. We did get him a heater and turned it on today, only to raise the temp to about 77 today, and slowly work our way up to cichlid temp.
I've been talking to the coworkers, and we are going to try to find him a 75g tank. We all think tank size may be whats stressing him out. We are also going to pool money to buy a freshwater test kit for here instead of me bringing mine everyday.
To set up a new tank for him, should we were talking about going a head and adding another HOB on this one with sponges and filter media to get some bactieria growing, then transfering that to the new tank..we want to fishless cycle it. So then do we just add fish food to the tank everyday? or can we add some of Rocky's current tank water to the new tank when we change water? or both? I was going to put some of his substrate in the new tank as well...how long does it take a seeded tank to cycle? we have to keep adding waste though correct? to keep the bacteria? Will old tank water do or do we need ammonia as well or just food? Thanks!
temp: 75
ph: 6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20-40, the color is between the two on the card
He doesn't appear to have any ich spots today, his fins look good, he's acting normal as well. We did get him a heater and turned it on today, only to raise the temp to about 77 today, and slowly work our way up to cichlid temp.
I've been talking to the coworkers, and we are going to try to find him a 75g tank. We all think tank size may be whats stressing him out. We are also going to pool money to buy a freshwater test kit for here instead of me bringing mine everyday.
To set up a new tank for him, should we were talking about going a head and adding another HOB on this one with sponges and filter media to get some bactieria growing, then transfering that to the new tank..we want to fishless cycle it. So then do we just add fish food to the tank everyday? or can we add some of Rocky's current tank water to the new tank when we change water? or both? I was going to put some of his substrate in the new tank as well...how long does it take a seeded tank to cycle? we have to keep adding waste though correct? to keep the bacteria? Will old tank water do or do we need ammonia as well or just food? Thanks!
My usual response to HITH/HLLE...
HITH/HLLE Treatment(s)
(1)Water Quality
Get your water quality/chemistry perfect, NH3-0, NO2-0, NO3- 0/20ppm,
check your filters & clean'em if necessary (reduces alot of NO3), gravel vac & PWC, do small PWC's (25%) every other day.
Just about everyone will agree that bad water chemistry and HITH go together like apple pie -n- ice cream...
(2)Diet
Feed a well balanced and varied diet* (See below).
(3)Vitamin Supplements
Add liquid vitamin supplements to all food and vary their diet.
Soak or load everything you feed the fish with vitamins until cured and watch your water.
Vitamins that you add to your tanks water are worthless (IMO).
We use "Vita Chem", our fish get it regularly.
This particular brand is available at most on-line retailers and at better LFS's (We get ours at BigAls).
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=27489;category_id=3781;pcid1=2911;pcid2=
(4)Supplementary treatment(s)
I would add a dose of salt to the tank, this helps lower stress, encourages slime-coat production and gill function amongst other things.
Also a dose of Melafix and Pimafix, these have been known to help healing.
(5)Medicate
Alot of folks blame Hexamita for HITH and thus treat for it with medications, BUT, studies have been done showing that Hex (and others) is/are a secondary infection/s (Whether or not Hexamita plays a key-role with HITH infections is controversial).
You need to do what "You" feel is right and correct after researching this for yourself, google "HITH causes prevention and cure" or some such, and visit Cichlid specific forums for more info.
Some folks also think that filter carbon dust plays a role...
Carbons role is controversial.
Some folks also think that stray electrical currents are to blame...
Stray electrical currents role is controversial at best.
It seems there are no absolutes as to the cause, but just like ICH there are many ways to treat it and proponenets/opponents of each treatment.
I say again though...
Perfect water quality and a varied nutritious diet supplemented with vitamins.
Here's a good article on HITH available here at Oscarfish,
http://www.oscarfish.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=3
For more simply Google, 'HITH' or 'HLLE'.
DIET
A quality cichlid pellet or stick should make up 75-80% of your O's diet.
These are my primary foods...
Pellets, Carnivore sticks, freezedried krill, algae wafers, fresh nightcrawlers, fresh/freezedried earthworm (Any worms are great foods!), fresh crickets, fresh mealworms, almost any insect I catch (Insects from outside do pose a risk of insecticides which can harm your fish, be careful.).
I feed or have fed my O all of these foods...
Raw/cooked shrimp, small bits of raw cut fish, beefheart, bitesize bits of fruits-n-veggies (zucchini, carrot, shelled peas, shelled corn, apple, orange, pear, papya and etc...), small tree/grass frogs (NO toads, and know which frog species your feeding as some can be toxic too.) and properly quarantined or raised feeder fish, these should be fed sparingly and rotated as snacks or dessert.
Do not feed unquarantined feeder fish from LFS/LPS, do not feed mammalian flesh (Animal fats from mammals and fowl are very bad for most fish).
I supplement his nutrition by soaking his pellets 4-5 times a week in a liquid vitamin.
I use Vita-Chem, available at some LFS's and on-line retailers, I get mine at BigAl's, http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=27487;category_id=3781;pcid1=2911;pcid2=
Alot of different types and brands are used, Liquid Centrum for example, but you could reasonably use any quality L. vitamin.
HITH/HLLE Treatment(s)
(1)Water Quality
Get your water quality/chemistry perfect, NH3-0, NO2-0, NO3- 0/20ppm,
check your filters & clean'em if necessary (reduces alot of NO3), gravel vac & PWC, do small PWC's (25%) every other day.
Just about everyone will agree that bad water chemistry and HITH go together like apple pie -n- ice cream...
(2)Diet
Feed a well balanced and varied diet* (See below).
(3)Vitamin Supplements
Add liquid vitamin supplements to all food and vary their diet.
Soak or load everything you feed the fish with vitamins until cured and watch your water.
Vitamins that you add to your tanks water are worthless (IMO).
We use "Vita Chem", our fish get it regularly.
This particular brand is available at most on-line retailers and at better LFS's (We get ours at BigAls).
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=27489;category_id=3781;pcid1=2911;pcid2=
(4)Supplementary treatment(s)
I would add a dose of salt to the tank, this helps lower stress, encourages slime-coat production and gill function amongst other things.
Also a dose of Melafix and Pimafix, these have been known to help healing.
(5)Medicate
Alot of folks blame Hexamita for HITH and thus treat for it with medications, BUT, studies have been done showing that Hex (and others) is/are a secondary infection/s (Whether or not Hexamita plays a key-role with HITH infections is controversial).
You need to do what "You" feel is right and correct after researching this for yourself, google "HITH causes prevention and cure" or some such, and visit Cichlid specific forums for more info.
Some folks also think that filter carbon dust plays a role...
Carbons role is controversial.
Some folks also think that stray electrical currents are to blame...
Stray electrical currents role is controversial at best.
It seems there are no absolutes as to the cause, but just like ICH there are many ways to treat it and proponenets/opponents of each treatment.
I say again though...
Perfect water quality and a varied nutritious diet supplemented with vitamins.
Here's a good article on HITH available here at Oscarfish,
http://www.oscarfish.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=3
For more simply Google, 'HITH' or 'HLLE'.
DIET
A quality cichlid pellet or stick should make up 75-80% of your O's diet.
These are my primary foods...
Pellets, Carnivore sticks, freezedried krill, algae wafers, fresh nightcrawlers, fresh/freezedried earthworm (Any worms are great foods!), fresh crickets, fresh mealworms, almost any insect I catch (Insects from outside do pose a risk of insecticides which can harm your fish, be careful.).
I feed or have fed my O all of these foods...
Raw/cooked shrimp, small bits of raw cut fish, beefheart, bitesize bits of fruits-n-veggies (zucchini, carrot, shelled peas, shelled corn, apple, orange, pear, papya and etc...), small tree/grass frogs (NO toads, and know which frog species your feeding as some can be toxic too.) and properly quarantined or raised feeder fish, these should be fed sparingly and rotated as snacks or dessert.
Do not feed unquarantined feeder fish from LFS/LPS, do not feed mammalian flesh (Animal fats from mammals and fowl are very bad for most fish).
I supplement his nutrition by soaking his pellets 4-5 times a week in a liquid vitamin.
I use Vita-Chem, available at some LFS's and on-line retailers, I get mine at BigAl's, http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=27487;category_id=3781;pcid1=2911;pcid2=
Alot of different types and brands are used, Liquid Centrum for example, but you could reasonably use any quality L. vitamin.
If you use plenty of established substrate/filter medias or a a fully matured filter then you will not need to 'Fishless Cycle'.biogal76 said:
I would ideally suggest a appropriately sized filter be matured beforehand, and transferring both the filters, and the transplanting of a significant amount (if not all) of established substrate.
If it easy enough you can add half or more of the water to the new tank as it will have the NH3(ammonia) in it to maintain the beneficial bacteria.
There is very very little beneficial bacteria in tank water, the only reason I suggest possibly transferring water is to provide food for the bacteria and prevent a possible mini cycle due to lack of sufficient NH3(ammonia) to maintain bacteria colonies at their normal levels until the fish produces enough to maintain.
1) As much established substrate and filter bio media as possible.
2) Add extra bio media to the current filters to mature and be ready for instant cycling of the new.
3) Mature the new filter on the old tank before setup.
