Need Some Counsel

P

pops5683

Ed
Jan 6, 2006
6
0
0
Central Fla
I've been on this site for a long time but only registered recently :dance: I had been keeping a 90 gal reef tank for several years and when I moved I broke it down and decided to go with a freshwater tank. I completed cycling the 90 gal in Nov and have had it lightly stocked since then. I'll give you as much info as I can and hopefully some of the guru's will step up and solve this problem. :(

The tank is set up as a community tank of sorts. Present stocking levels are: 3 young firemouths, 1 veil tail angel and 3 marble angels, 5 coryies, 2 ballon mollies, and 5 koulie loaches. In the 5 months the tank has been running I've lost 5 angels all black veil tails. All lost at various times; most recently 1 yesterday. :rant2: I haven't seen any aggression in the tank( but it certainly could happen). Every angel that died had been in the tank for at least 2 weeks.

Water parameters: Water changes 20% every week, well water/ph 8.2-8.4.(This could be the problem.)ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 10-20, gh 10, kh8, po4 .25. Running 2 emperor 400's. I have added numerous plants( vals, java fern, bacopa and telanthera.) So I allowed the nitrates to slowing climb to the 10-20. Before the plants nitrates were usually about 5. I use AP Freshwater Master Test Kit. :read:

All these readings have been pretty consistent since the tank has been up with very little variation. I always read that PH is not as important as consistancy. I really like angels but this like may need to go away. What do you all think??? Ed
 
Angels often catch disease quicker than a lot of other fish, this is because they are so delicate. The most usual diseases for them to catch are rin rot and ich (white spot).

Can you see any unusual marking on ANY fish in your tank that could be caused by disease?

It is true that a higher pH should be fine as long as the fish are given time to climatise to it when tranferring them into your tank. A bad idea is to start playing about with pH changers that can cause a huge swing in pH and kill your fish. If you are concerned about your fish get some good bogwood as a buffer.

Have you diagnosed any of your fish or taken any into your LPS? They will do a diagnosis for a price but if it is really affecting your tank it is usually worth it for the beginner as it is hard to handle one on your own. A diagnosis may be as simple as just being able to see the disease or having to take scrapings and look at them under a microscope.

There are many things that will cause the "sudden death syndorme", including wrong water parameters, insufficient oxygen and bacterial disease.

A common factor in almost all disease is usually stress. This will weaken your fishes immune system and could let in a whole host of bacteria, virusses and even parasites.

Do not start pouring in medication and chemicals! The worst thing that you can do is rush into anything. Do some recearch, do or get a diagnosis done for you and only then can you be sure what to do in your tank.

After a lot of medications it is likley that some of your "good bacteria" will have been killed, do regular water checks and if needed top up with bacteria starters (often said to either not work or do very minimal work)
 
I'd take this down to the cichlid forum and see what the folks in there have to say.

The pH and KH are very high for angels. There is some flexibility in pH but there is also still a range. You may be outside of the range here.
 
carpguy said:
I'd take this down to the cichlid forum and see what the folks in there have to say.

The pH and KH are very high for angels. There is some flexibility in pH but there is also still a range. You may be outside of the range here.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiousity...

What are the water Params from the LFS where you get the angels???

If their water is much softer than your well water, then you've got some possible issues with aclimating them.

Perhaps add peat to the filters to soften the water, which should bring down the pH as well. If you can get the water STABLE at the level that the fish live in at the LFS, then you'll have Happy & Healthy fish!
 
The only problem I've had is with the black VT angels, all the other fish seem fine. I have lost only the BVT angels I haven't put any meds in the tank because all the other fish seem fine and I don't want to treat the whole tank without knowing what the problem is. I'm really stumpted. Thanks for the reply.
 
TetraFreak said:
Just out of curiousity...

What are the water Params from the LFS where you get the angels???

If their water is much softer than your well water, then you've got some possible issues with aclimating them.

Perhaps add peat to the filters to soften the water, which should bring down the pH as well. If you can get the water STABLE at the level that the fish live in at the LFS, then you'll have Happy & Healthy fish!
Click to expand...
I had asked the guy at the LFS what there PH was and I got a vague "treated tap water a little on the basic side "was the response I got. I probably should not even have bothered buying them, but I really wanted angles and my Firemouths had been fine.
Are they more hardy then the angels?? I don't want to control my PH with chemicals. I feel that is ineffective and not consistent.
Are there any Rainbow's that would fit my water parameters. I really don't want to go the Mbuna route??
 
If the LFS can't give you specific water params for their tanks, they obviously hire people that don't care or just don't know their butts from a hole in the ground.

If you MUST get fish from them, test the water in the fish bag when you get it home. this will give you a ballpark as to what their levels are at.

I can't see how they can sell fish that need certain params and yet they don't know what those params are for their own tanks???

Something's Fishy there!
(PUN INTENDED!)
 
I have lost every black angel I have ever tried. I also heard from one LFS that they are subceptlpe to disease. Not sure if this true, but I stay away from them now, just from my past experience with them.
 
I think I'll do the same. If my marble angels make it(already over 2 weeks). I'll stay with them. How about rainbows????????????
 
pops5683 said:
How about rainbows????????????
Click to expand...
I have Boesemani Rainbowfish in hard water with a pH of 8.4 that have been thriving since 2/28/06. They don't seem to mind my water. I don't know if they'll breed in it or not...time will tell.
 
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