Neons dying, and a cory cat too... because of high pH?

macphoto

macphoto

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Aug 19, 2005
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Here's my situation... 16 gal. tank, about 2 months old. Current residents are 2 very tough dwarf gouramis that survived several days of no power after hurricane Katrina (until I could get back home and hook them up to a generator). A few weeks ago, with the tank fully cycled (ammonia and nitrites 0), I decided to start adding some more fish.

Neons were what I had in mind when I decided several months ago to get back into fishkeeping, so I picked up 5 of them. They started dropping off one by one over a span of a few days. To make a long (and depressing) story shorter, I've been through 3 batches of neons (5 each time). The 2nd and 3rd batch seemed fine when I first added them (schooling happily, good appetites, etc.), but after a day or two, had started to die off. I currently have only have 2 remaining (they're hiding in the back... one looks ok, the other is a little pale). I also had a cory cat, which seemed to be doing great for several days, die yesterday. Gouramis are still fine, as is the algae eater I bought about a week ago.

I'm wondering whether my water's pH might be a factor. The "5 in 1" test strips (all I have right now) showed a pH of around 8.0 - 8.4. Could this be killing the fish? Knowing neons prefer more acidic water, I bought some stuff that is supposed to lower the pH, but have since learned from here that this is virtually pointless due to the high buffering capacity of my water, and might even cause harm to my fish. Perhaps this is what killed the cory (I've stopped using it).

I know that some attrition is probably unavoidable, but I feel terrible killing all these fish. Is there anything else I can do to help newly introduced neons survive in my tank? Should I give up on the neons? If so, any suggestions on a hardier small fish that I could add in a group of 5 or 6? Should I try another cory (I really liked him... very entertaining to watch him busily sniff out every nook and cranny of the tank looking for food)?

Here are my water parameters:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20ppm
Hardness: 25ppm
Alkalinity/Buffering: 300ppm (maybe more)
pH: 8.0 - 8.4

--Mike
 
Thanks for the suggestions... I'll look into these other fish, though I'm disappointed, because I had my heart set on neons. I wonder if cardinal tetras might do ok?

Also, any other choices for bottomfeeders besides corys? The cory (a julii) was very fun to watch, and seemed to be a diligent scavenger.

--Mike
 
pH is most likely not the factor responsible for your losses, especially since you are likely to have purchased them from a local source with water parameters similar to yours.

So the questions that then arise are: what is your filtration, what are your water changing patterns, and where are you buying the neons? Also, wherever you are buying them, and hdo they quarantine the fish before they sell them?
 
Harry Tolen said:
pH is most likely not the factor responsible for your losses, especially since you are likely to have purchased them from a local source with water parameters similar to yours.

So the questions that then arise are: what is your filtration, what are your water changing patterns, and where are you buying the neons? Also, wherever you are buying them, and hdo they quarantine the fish before they sell them?
Click to expand...

2 groups were purchased from a PetSmart several miles away (just outside the city limits, I think), so they MAY be on a different water system than my home. The other group was purchased from a shop right down the street from my house, so their water should be the same as mine. This group did seem to do a bit better than the groups from PetSmart. Perhaps I'll go try to have a talk with the owner.

I doubt either of these places quarantine the fish.

Filtration is a 125gph biowheel, and I also have a bubble wand to agitate the surface. Temp is warmer than I'd like it to be... usually about 79.5 - 80.5. Ambient temperature in the house is 76 - 78 usually, but I think the aquarium's lamp hood is warming up the water.

In all cases, I acclimated by floating the bag for 20 minutes or so, then periodically added small amounts of tank water over the next 20 minutes, before netting the fish and placing them in the tank. Is there a better way?

It breaks my heart to hear my kids ask, "daddy, how many neons are left now?" :(

--Mike
 
macphoto said:
Thanks for the suggestions... I'll look into these other fish, though I'm disappointed, because I had my heart set on neons. I wonder if cardinal tetras might do ok?

Also, any other choices for bottomfeeders besides corys? The cory (a julii) was very fun to watch, and seemed to be a diligent scavenger.

--Mike
Click to expand...

Cardinals are even more sensitive to pH than neons. My LFS will not even sell them to you without a water sample that they can test to make sure your pH is 6.4 or less.
 
The ignorance of LFS is limitless, fish do not and cannot "read" pH. Fish read osmolarity/TDS (the total of GH, KH, plus all other dissolved materials). There is no such thing as pH shock, but osmotic shock is not rare from changing fish from one water type to another, but it is not at all due to the pH.
 
What is the algae eater that you have? If it is a common pleco, you are looking at a fish that easily grows to 18+ inches, I would return it asap!!! I would try your local shop, and even ask what their ph is. A drastic change can be a problem, adjusting should not. Neons and corys though can both be somewhat sensitive. If you do get more corys, they like to be in groups, 3 would be good for your size tank. Maybe you could try 3-4 male guppys, they will school somewhat, and as long as the gouramis don't bother them, they could be a colorful and more hardy addition to the tank
 
I am treating ich using heat/salt and wonder how long I should leave it before I introduce any more new fish. Also, when adding new fish, are there any preventative measures I can take to stop the ich again?

Many thanks

:bowing:
 
I've found it very difficult to keep neons in tanks less than 4-5 months old. Look into drip acclimation for your future pruchases. Place fish in a small "fish only" containter/bucket. Start a siphon from the main tank and tie a knot in the hose so that you're getting about one/two drips per second. Let this run into the bucket untill the water level has doubled or even quadrupled (30, 40 50 min) then release the fish. If temp has dropped significantly during that time then float the fish for another 10-15 minutes untill temp has come back up. I do ALL my new pruchases this way. Even then, there's no gaurantee with neons. Once you get some that survive a couple months however they are pretty hardy. I have a trio that I move around as dither fish (bought 12 originally to get the three that lived) and have not lost any in the subsequent moves. I think neons and blue ram stocks suffer from the same malady. Overbreeding, poor pre-lfs treatment.
 
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