New to saltwater...need help!!

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fishinhd

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Dec 25, 2002
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Hi all...new to the board, and saltwater. To give a little background, I have raised African Chichlids, Angels, and most every freshwater fish out there except Discus. I am a firm believer in total over-filtration and letting things happen "naturally" versus always having hands and chemicals/medication in my tanks. My wife always yells about the algea in my tanks, but doesn't understand the benefits to the water quality.

OK, in my new home I am putting a 125 gl. tank and I would like to do salt. I am well versed in most of the basics...but I have never done salt. I am planning on probably 2 Aquaclear 500's, 2 large fluidized beds, and 2 of the larger Skilters as far as filtrations. I have had a lot of luck with Aquaclears and have noticed them on a lot of saltwater systems in pet stores. The fluidized beds are excellent in my experience and opinion. Skilters should do the job intended. Of course, plenty of quality powerheads for water movement.

Now some questions: I understand the difference between a "reef system" and a fish only system. Can I combine the two? I would like to use a minimal amount of liverock (meaning only what is needed) and I would like a few small anemones for clown fish and maybe a couple other "beginner" corals. I mostly want a community fish tank, but I feel there should be a certain amount of inverts to make it seem "real". Am I talking silliness or does this make sense? I would really appreciate any comments and help!! Thanx in advance.....Mike
 
Welcome to AC!

A 125g tank is a great way to start out in saltwater. I would ditch the aquaclear filters. HOB filters are huge nitrate producers which are deadly to inverts. If people do use HOB filters they take the media out of them and use them only for water movement or basically an expensive powerhead. I dont have any experience with skilter filters but others here have tried them and say they aren't worth the plastic they're made of. Someone else will have to chime in on the fludized bed filters, i dont have any experience with them. For powerheads you will need about 10 times turnover of your tank per hour, so you can judge from there how many you will need. If you want things to happen "naturally" in you tank use live rock and deep sand bed for filtration. The LR and DSB are the most efficent in filtering for a saltwater tank. Putting about 150lbs of LR in your tank would be expensive but you can use a 70/30 mixture of base rock which is much cheaper and the finally 30% being LR. The base rock will over time be the same as the expensive LR. For the DSB get some Southdown play sand if you can and make a 4-6" layer in your tank. Get some sand from and established tank and add it to your sand and presto, a DSB.

If you want to keep clownfish you dont need an anemone host. Its a common misconception that a clownfish needs anemone to survive. In the wild they are needed but in a fish tank the clownfish doesnt need them and often wont even take to them. If you want an anemone anyway they require a lot of light like 9-11 watts per gallon. That kind of wattage is going to be very expensive and even still anemones usually dont live longer than a couple of months in captivity.

Inverts are definantly do-able in a begineer reef tank but the water quality of the tank must be kept very high!

A basic type of coral to keep would be many kinds of polyps. They are not very demanding on lighting and many are very striking to watch.

Do lots and lots of reading before you purchase everything as you will save yourself a lot of dollars. Look at the book recomendations thread at the beginning of the General Marine forum and pick up some of the books recommended there. If you have any more ?'s post them and we would be glad to help you out!

Matt
 
Matt...I really appreciate your input. I think the Aquaclear concept comes from my experience with freshwater. I always feel a need for mechanical filtration! I have been reading about salt for a number of years...I do understand the "concept" of live rock. However, deep sand filtration seems to be very new to the field. Not knowing a whole lot about it, do you think I would be better starting with a wet/dry system as a beginner?? Once again, this is a concept very familiar to me, as opposed to deep sand. I realize the lack of need for the anemones with the clowns, but I think it really makes for a symbiotic relationship.

I'm not trying to get "too fancy" yet. I just want to be able to filter the heck out of it to avoid always "being in it".

Over years of freshwater, I have learned to let the filters do thier job....I leave a sack of peat moss in my Aquaclear for my Angels....it keeps the ph low (as they need). I don't add Blackwater Tonic or any of the junk they try to sell. I let it go on it's own...and my dime sized Angels that I "rescued" from some little tank in Wal-Mart are now as big as a man's wallet with pec fins at least 4" long.

I just want to be able to do as little maintenance as possible and let major filtration and good bacteria do the job.

I don't say this out of laziness....it just seems that the more I have left tanks alone, kept hands out, kept chemicals/medications out, layed back on water changes, etc.....the better they seem to thrive!!

Thanx again for all input....Mike
 
Yeah its hard making the switch from freshwater to saltwater because you basically have to forget a lot of things you learned. In freshwater nitrates arent a good thing either but the fish can tolerate them much better. In saltwater the same is true with the fish but since your thinking of a semi-reef setup the build-up of nitrates is deadly for inverts. Mechanical filters will undoubtly build-up nitrates and lead to the deaths of inverts. I know its tough to go from total mechanical filtration to none but no mechanical filtration is needed for saltwater. Less "hands on" is what is accomplished with the LR and DSB filtration. DSB are very very easy to setup so dont be scared off by them. Personally i would recommend a good skimmer (which i guess is a form of mechanical filtration in a way) like Euro Reef and many others. GCVT uses a Euro Reef skimmer and loves it as do many others. So basically for filtration i would use LR, DSB and a skimmer and thats all you'll need.

Have you looked into lighting yet? I would go with some metal halide's if you want to keep anemones. I would say your looking at about $1000 in lighting if you want to keep anemone(s) in a 125g tank.

Water changes are just as improtant in SW as they are in FW. Are you planning on using RO/DI water or tap? RO/DI water will almost eliminate algea problems in a tank.

As always post back if you have any more questions!

Matt
 
Matt...once again, thanks for the help. Reading some of my back issues of FAMA really helped put all your info in place. I think the salwtr. article just never sank in as much since I wasn't doing it.

So now I understand the concept of LR and DSB and it really make sense. I do have a brand new fluidized bed filter that I think will go on the 125. It may be redundant, but I have been very impressed with the preformance in freshwater. I will certainly be using the appropriate size protien skimmer(s) also.

One good thing is my lighting: I work for a lumber company that is in the process of remodeling many of our area stores. Metal halides will be replaced by new metal halides. This puts me in a very good position....when old stuf will end up in the dumpster anyhow.

I plan on ordering a quality RO unit. One last question (for now): any suggestions on using or the need for a UV sterilizer? I only know what I have read about them.

Again, thanx for all the help! Reading through the many posts on this forum, it seems that everyone is willing to help and share info...I think I will be here for a long time asking questions and hopefully answering a few!! Great forum!!!

Mike
 
Brian...very good point!! I did not really think about it, evn though I should have. The lights in our stores are pretty large....the clear "shroud" over the bulb is probably 2.5' around. I have replacement bulbs in the back of the store...in the original packing...I will check the K "rating"? Thanks for your attention...I probably would have overlooked this!

Once again...GREAT FORUM!!!!

Thanx for all the help guys!!!!!

Mike
 
I recommend not using the fluidized bed filter even if you have it. FB is very effective at converting ammonia to nitrates in highly aerobic conditions and, as mentioned, you want to avoid nitrates as much as possible in SW. Using a good skimmer will accomplish this without the need for the FB. The FB may also make it harder for the DSB to process nitrogen compounds into nitrogen gas.
 
Surprise surprise...guess what else I'm going to say NOT to buy...yup, that UV. They may be useful in times of ick or the like, but if you run one constantly you will be killing off alot of good planktonic food being produced in the tank. This of course is great coral food, and you don't want starving corals right? ;) Save that $$ for lighting, and please get really familiar with the care requirements for anemones, and their respective hosts. Just having a clown and an anemone in a tank doesn't equal that really cool symbiosis everyone (including myself) loves so much. Since these guys should only be attempted even after the tank is well matured, this should give ya some time to learn a bit about the whole anemone topic in the hobby.
 
Well, I can tell I will be on this board for awhile! I really appreciate all the input! Anemones have just become last on my hitlist....apparently I need a little more education. I will be starting out slow and learning. I have always noticed this problem with the hobby, wether SW or FW....people try to jump in full throttle before they have any clue. That's why I am here, to learn from others!!

It's amazing how easy fish stores make things look, and have no problem selling you things when they know darn well you have no place owning it. I guess that falls into free enterprise, profit vs. loss, etc. Where I live (in S. Delaware) we really don't have any "reputable" fish stores. They all seem to be "fly by night", for lack of a better term. I guess when an anemone looks great in thier tank, it probably just got there....because by looking, I can tell they are not doing anything special! I think I will be bugging all of you for a good while.....thanx for taking the time to share your knowledge!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mikey
 
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