overstocking? why is it so bad?

gagaliya

gagaliya

GNOME POWER!
Nov 20, 2005
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NJ
www.happyreward.com
ok lets say you have a 10 gallon tank, it's clearly big enough for whiteclouds.

now instead of putting in the acceptable 6-10 whiteclouds, you add in 30 whiteclouds. BUT you have enough filtration power (bio/chem/mech) and do enough water change to maintain a amonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate <40ppm.

so experts please explain why this is bad? since
1) water condition is not the problem
2) fish not have enough room to swim is also not the problem

so why is it bad? other than it requires higher water change frequency to remove nitrate..

edit: for those of you extremsist who think 10 gallon is too small for whiteclouds, just make your own number for example 20 gallon with 50 whiteclouds etc.. basically the idea is to put fish in a tank that's definitely big enough for them but just put a higher quantity of the fish
 
Because 20 gallons with 50 fish will pollute a whole lot faster than 50 gallons with 50 fish. Overcrowding fish stresses them, and makes them far more vulnerable to disease. It also stunts their growth, which can be fatal over time. Changing the water every day would be needed for this scenario, not something that everyone has the time to do. Simply put, it is very unhealthy for the fish. You must also feed them, and feeding that many fish makes a whole lot of waste.
Think of it in terms of population density: would you rather have 4 sqaure feet of personal space to yourself, or 100 square feet? We all know that extremely crowded conditions in various places of the world (India, for example) have an alarmingly high number of diseased and dying. AIDs is spread quite quickly in that area, and the pollution is horrendous. Why should we replicate those conditions anywhere else, let alone our own fishtanks?
To provide the best conditons for your fish, you MUST allow them room to grow and swim. This is essential not only to their health, but to their happiness.
 
Its just if your power fails and your filtration is off your fish might die faster. I have a 10gallon with a colony of guppies, I probrably have 30-40 adults and maybe 60 fry or so. Its heavily planted with hornwort and java ferns. Its been like that since june and I assume they're healthy and doing fine because a lot of the fry grow to adulthood and i have to sell them to keep my tank from becoming truly crowded. It really depends how much waste the fish produce. Small fish like guppies and white clouds don't produce much waste and aren't messy eaters.

EDIT: heres a picture.
10gallon.12.28.05.jpg
 
Last edited:
themadblimper said:
Because 20 gallons with 50 fish will pollute a whole lot faster than 50 gallons with 50 fish. Overcrowding fish stresses them, and makes them far more vulnerable to disease. It also stunts their growth, which can be fatal over time. Changing the water every day would be needed for this scenario, not something that everyone has the time to do. Simply put, it is very unhealthy for the fish. You must also feed them, and feeding that many fish makes a whole lot of waste.
Think of it in terms of population density: would you rather have 4 sqaure feet of personal space to yourself, or 100 square feet? We all know that extremely crowded conditions in various places of the world (India, for example) have an alarmingly high number of diseased and dying. AIDs is spread quite quickly in that area, and the pollution is horrendous. Why should we replicate those conditions anywhere else, let alone our own fishtanks?
To provide the best conditons for your fish, you MUST allow them room to grow and swim. This is essential not only to their health, but to their happiness.
Click to expand...

May i suggest you be more politically correct about stating where and how AIDS is spread.
 
The reason for not overstocking is about the margin of error for a specific setup. Things will and do fail. If the power goes out and you are already doing daily waterchanges to keep up I don't know if you would be able to keep all the fish alive.

I try to stock my tanks so that if one or more of the systems fail I can still keep my fish healthy.
 
These stocking guidelines were developed for the average fishkeeper who rarely does a waterchange. Does not know about the cycle, and if there is something wrong goes out to buy a chemical to "fix the problem" If you are more into the hobby, and know what you are doing then feel free to stock according to what you think you can handle.
 
rrkss said:
These stocking guidelines were developed for the average fishkeeper who rarely does a waterchange. Does not know about the cycle, and if there is something wrong goes out to buy a chemical to "fix the problem" If you are more into the hobby, and know what you are doing then feel free to stock according to what you think you can handle.
Click to expand...


ding, ding, ding.........we have a winner!!! :o
 
many things are possible, others are not. With overstocked tanks, most folks are not willing to do the maintenance required. I'm not that's for sure. I find 60-70% water changes a week to be about my limit. Feeding is an issue because it is harder to ensure every fish gets enough food, without overfeeding. At some point the filtration on the system will not be large enough to handle the bio-load and so on. I frequently keep overcrowded guppy breeding tanks, but I never "assume" they are doing alright simply because the fish don't die before they reach adulthood. I test water, change water, and control the population to the best of my ability. Bio-filtration is the difficult part because there needs to be enough surfac area in the filter to handle the bio-load. Surface area requires space (obviously) so in a small tank you limiting factor becomes fiklter surface area. That is why no matter how dilligent people are 8 goldfish in a 20 gallon tank never works long term.

The facts are pretty simple, if the fish have enough room to grow properly, enough food to grow properly, and clean enough water to grow properly then that's fine they are not overcrowded. By definition overcrowded is a situation where the demands of the livestock exceed the capacity of the system and the maintenance. This is why there is so much debate about stocking levels on the boards. there is no cut and dry rule that works. Most folks who have been in the hobby long prefer to err on the side of caution and have stable easy to maintain tanks.

And of course with all but a handful of fish species, there are the additional issues of attitude, territory, growth issues, breeding issues etc. swimming space etc.
White clouds and guppies are really the exception in fish behavior not the norm.

Just my 2 cents worth
Dave
 
overcrowding is alright to some extent, as long as fish have room to swim around one another and as long as territorial fish each have a place to call their own. You can always buy a bigger filter and do more waterchanges; but the real issue in overcrowding is personal space for each fish.
 
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