Plants in an uncycled tank?

G

Ghostshrimp55

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Sep 30, 2005
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Hello everyone. This might be a long post but there are relevant questions forthcoming. Just giving background info to start. I'm new to the whole planted aquarium thing and I've inherited some plants from a friend who can no longer keep his tank. He got the plants very recently but had to get rid of his tank because he is moving. I planted them in my new 55 gallon tank with two 15 watt aqua-glo bulbs (I think they're made by Hagen?). They each put out 18,000 K (whatever that means). I also mixed a 2 inch layer of flourite into the gravel in the areas where I put the plants.

I tried fishless cycling my tank by various means for 3 weeks with no results which is why I didn't take my friend's fish (added 5ppm ammonia and gravel from an established tank.......nothing. added lots of filter squeezings directly to the canister filter, slight decrease in ammonia.................added bio-spira, nitrites and nitrates appear. Then, no change at all for 2 weeks [ammonia holds at 3ppm, nitrites at 5ppm and nitrates at 20ppm, pH 8 and change!) when, by all accounts, the tank should have been cycled.) My patience wore out and I changed out like 85% of the water to start from almost new. I have about .25ppm ammonia left.

I'm going to let the plants sit over night and see what they do about the small ammonia level. I also, in theory, should have some small amount of denitrifying bacteria in the tank sooooooooooooo, by tomorrow the ammonia may or may not go down. If not, I'm just going to do a 50% water change, then get fish. I plan on fishy cycling the tank with a bunch of danios and corys. These will be purchased tomorrow around mid-day. (Golden zebra danios and 2 cory species, all of which are in my final tank plans)

My questions are:

What can I expect out of these plants? I have a large plant with leaves that are shaped like canoe paddles 12+ inches long (no tubers) which I'm assuming is an anubias maybe? Something referred to by my friend as a "green hedge." A red cryptocornes (yeah, I prob. spelled that wrong). Lastly, some kind of plant that has shorter versions of the anubias' leaves only they are more spoon-shaped than paddle-shaped. 5 plants in total. Will these plants be okay for the time being or can I expect them to simply die while the tank is fishy cycling?

Also, how will they affect the water chemistry? My GH is in the 5 deg. range, my KH is 4 and my pH is 7.5ish. I'm hoping that, once things get underway a little bit, they will maybe lower the pH by emitting CO2 at night (in addition to what the fish put out)?

And, finally, I inted at some point to make a DIY CO2 system. Should I wait until the tank is cycled or do it asap? How might that affect my tank chemistry?

I know I'm probably doing a lot of things wrong from the get-go but, please, be gentle! I am willing to make corrections within reason. I'm on a little bit of a budget. I've dumped a ton of money into this tank already and I haven't even bought any fish yet! I know lighting might be a major issue. Anyone have any inexpensive and not hideous looking solutions to maybe making a DIY double row lighting system?

Some other maybe relevant info: I have about 2.5 inches of gravel (6+ inches in the corner where the "anubias" is). 2 pieces of petrified wood, some green shale, two 6 inch air stones, heater which keeps the tank at 78 and an eheim 2215 canister filter for a tank almost 3 times the size of mine. The tank is near a window but, because the window faces east, it doesn't get very much direct sun at all and only for a short period of time. I will also be adding some driftwood once the tannins are pretty much done leaching out in the bucket outside.

A huge thanks to anyone who actually took the time to respond to, let alone read, this long post.
 
You're going to need to add more lights if you want to keep healthy plants. The most important thing in a planted tank is the amount of wattage your lights emit. 30w over a 50g tank is on the very low side, plants like anubias and cryptcoryne may hang around but they won't grow very much if at all. Add more lights to increase the wattage or replace/retrofit your hood and get to at least 1wpg (enough for low light plants) or more. Cheap way of adding more lights to your tank is to use those screw-in power compact fluorescent bulbs (the swirly ones that look like a sundae cone) that you see in most hardware stores.

When the plants are healthy and growing, you can expect them to consume ammonia and nitrates, they don't consume nitrites. The more plants you have, the better bio-filtration you'll get. The plants won't change your water parameters in any noticeable amount.

The plant you describe with the paddle like leaf sounds like an amazon sword of some kind, the red crypt is probably a wendtii, and the hedge is likely not an aquatic plant and may die. Watch that one closely and remove it if it starts to decay. The anubias and crypt wendtii may be ok for awhile under the very low light condition. The amazon sword will need more light soon, preferably in the 1.5-2wpg range.

Since you're having lots of problems with the cycling process, I recommend getting lots of fast growing plants like hornwort, water sprite, anacharis, wisteria, etc into your tank and get them enough lights. Feed them ammonia and when they look healthy and are growing, add a small load of fishes. Your plants will act as your bio-filter. Add a few fishes overy week until you reach you're satisfied. Always check your ammonia/nitrite/and nitrate levels frequently and do water changes when they get too high.

You can add CO2 right away, though it won't be much help at the current light level. It won't change the water chemistry aside from lowering your pH.
 
Hi :)

Home depot sells shoplights... you can get a double strip light for about 20 bucks. This will give you 80 watts... though not reflecting very well, it's better.

For bulbs, the color spectrum is important. You have "18,000 K" ... you want something around 6700, a little higher is all right, but much higher or any lower is bad.

Also, Aquatraders.com sells VERY cheap light fixtures that could satisfy what you need... you can get 260 wats in a 48" strip for less then a hundred bucks.



On your tank, did you have the filter running? I guarentee you have some bacteria in there... and your plants will lower your ammonia levels quickly if you have enough circulation. Don't add your fish until you get rid of that ammonia though... it's rough enough on them without STARTING with some in the water.
 
Thanks for the replies! Yes, I did have the filter running. I don't know what happened. Either I was just very impatient or the cycle stalled for some reason. The ammonia dropped from 5ppm to three in only a few days and then never budged for two weeks after that.

Anyway......this isn't a cycling thread. I will get the ammonia down one way or another (either with the plants or with another large changeout. Plus, I already know that with fish in an uncycled tank, I'm in for more water changes. I'm prepared for the worst. Yay.

I'm a little confused about the "6700 K" thing...........all of the bulbs that claim to be designed for planted tanks are in the much larger "18000 K" range. 6700 K is what I had with the bulbs that came with the 2 24" hoods that I use for my tank, but they were your standard flourescent bulbs........wrong light spectrum. Should I get a different type of bulb? And, if so, where from?

I'm going to look into the shop light thing. Are they compatable with the bulbs that you get from pet stores? I'm not too bad at basic carpentry, either. I might be able to fabricate a hood of some sort to mount the fixture to. We'll see. Anyone know of some good DIY plans?

As for the "green hedge" plant..........I'm stumped. Definitely seems like an aquatic plant. It has "Roots" shooting out of almost every node and it came in one of those aquatic plant pots. Wish I knew what it was. I'll keep an eye on it, though.

Anyway, thanks again! Any other suggestions will be more than welcome. I'm particularly interested in what everyone might recommend for a DIY light set up.
 
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About the kelvin rating, I haven't tried out the 18,000k lights before but if the light is mostly white you'll be fine. If there's a heavy blue tint, replace them.

Shoplights are reguler fluorescent lights, usually a T12 (large tubes) but can support T10s as well. The smaller tubes sold in LFS are usually the smaller T8 tubes which aren't compatible with regular shoplights. The larger tubes sold in LFS are probably T10s which will fit the shoplights. Here's a money saving tip, those fancy aquarium lights offer no more benefits to your tanks than the lights in the hardware store. The full spectrum daylights in the hardware store are probably cheaper than the aquarium lights.

Personally, if money isn't too much of an issue, I'd spend the extra cash to get power compact fluorescents like the ones from www.ahsupply.com.
 
My job is down the road from Home Despot. I'll look there for a shop light. I'm thinking that if I go with the shop light, it might be a good idea to line the inside with aluminum foil?

Oh yeah. I'm guessing I'd have to go with a glass top as well? I wouldn't have to seal it up, would I?
 
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Nah, no need to use foil as a reflector, the white reflector that comes with most shoplights is not as efficient as a mirror finish but is enough. Unless you have the foil perfectly smooth, it's not worth the effort.

Yes, you'll want a glass top or something to prevent water from coming into contact with the lights. If you have an enclosed hood, its a good idea to have some form of ventilation so condensation doesn't occur inside.
 
Hey GS, if money is a concern & you are going to HD to get the shop light (2 bulbs), get the bulbs there. They are the best prices (I agree with phanmc). get 1 plant gro blub, and 1 sunshine blub. I don't remember the Kelvin ratings on them, but they worked over my 55 for low light plants.
If you have $$ to spend, then definitly go with Compacts.

Also tin foil doesn't work well as a reflector, it's more of a difuser. There are posts on the Krib about this. They say bright white is better, or if you can get your hands on it mylar.
Quick test:
If you shine a take a flash light, and shine it at an angle at a piece of foil, the reflection is very dim and diluted.
 
Okay, so foil is out. I forgot to check out Home Depot on my home today so maybe someone can clarify this for me:

Compact flourescents.....they work with shop lights or no? I can spend the bucks on the bulbs, just not the ridiculous amounts that they want for the set ups (around 150-250 bucks....yikes!)

Also, can I get grow lights from HD or only the pet store? I know HD carries full spectrum lights but what, specifically, should I look for? What have you guys tried that works? Also, are there bulbs that I can get for moderate to high light plants that work with shop lights? Just want to see how far I can get with a shop light. Oh, and one more thing.......what kind of flourescent tube wattage should I be looking for for the shop light? I thought I read somewhere that they are labelled in a way that reflects wattage as compared to a standard screw-in bulb (ie, 75 watt flourescent is the same as a 75 watt screw-in). In other words, can I use the labelled wattage as the total output for the unit or is there some kind of fudge factor?

Thanks for the help everyone!
 
Power compact fluorescents cannot be used with a shoplight, they need a different ballast and connector. Check out www.ahsupply.com (I'm beginning to sound like their reseller even though I don't use their product :p:)for a DIY setup, very reasonable prices in terms of PC lighting.

Fluorescent tube types (full spectrum, daylight, plant-gro, etc) don't matter, the plants will benefit from all of them. You can get plants to grow with the standard tubes if you're willing to put up with the yellowish light. Buy what looks good to your eyes, most will recommend full spectrum or daylight because they offer a much whiter light that is still natural. The ones specifically made for plants usually give off a purplish light and doesn't really offer much noticeable improvements to plant growth if at all.

Ignore the label that compares fluorescents to incandescents, the wattage per gallon guideline are measured by normal output fluorescents, such as those used in shoplights. The wattage for fluorescent tubes are usually limited by their size, a 20w tube is usually 24". So you may be limited depending on how much space you have under the hood. You're aiming for a total of 50w-60w for even the low light plants in a 50g tank.
 
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