Please help, high nitrites low ammonia?

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Emaleth

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Jun 4, 2006
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Hi everyone. I have to preface this by saying I'm a little hesitant about asking for help again, due to my last thread I started. However, I really do need some help, so I'm hoping everyone will be gentle ;) I have now been going through a fish cycle for 4 weeks now, and I'm still cycling. The first mistake I made was buying too many fish for my 20 gallon tank, I started with around 19. I now have 4 mollies, 1 new molly fry, 3 rasboras, 3 neon tetras, 3 guppies, 2 ? (forgot their names-around 1 1/2 inches long with bright red eyes and grey bodies), a pl*co, and 4 ghost shrimp. I have been doing alot of partial water changes to keep my ammonia levels as low as possible. I have cut my feedings to less than half of what I was doing (once every other day and only once a day then). I have been doing 50% pwc, and just did one today, with a 1/2 gravel cleaning. I have an Aqua Tech 10-20 power filter, that contains activated carbon. I installed a bubble curtain about 3 weeks ago (the mollies love it). I have plain gravel substrate and plastic plants. Now-today before my water change I checked my water params. with a Fresh Lab kit. My pH level was 7.6, ammonia 1.0, and nitrite 0.1. I did a 50% partial water change and then the levels were pH 7.8, ammonia 0, and nitrites 0.2. My temperature is at 82 degrees. I have since cut my heater down, but am starting to think that it is broken or stuck on that temp. It has been at 82 since I started, even when I turn it down. Can someone point me in the right direction as to what I need to do for my nitrites? Why would my ammonia be down after my water change, but my nitrites get raised? Due to the increase in pH? If so, what should I do about my tap water before pretreating (I am currently using Aquasafe as a water conditioner). I want super healthy fish, and I thought I was doing the best I could to keep them that way. I have been doing water changes at least 2 times a week. I feel super frustrated and at my wits end. I would appreciate anyone's corrective criticism and advice! Thanks so much in advance! :hang:

Also, my guppies are hanging at the top of the tank today. I am sure they are stressing. Is there anything else I can do for them today? Should I go ahead and do another water change today since I've already done a 50%? I just feel like crying!!!!
 
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First part of the cycle is the ammonia, next your nitrites will rise. Once they go down to 0 and stay you will see the nitrates go up. When you see this you tank is cycled. You will need to keep doing water changes to keep the nitrites down. Yes you have too many fish. I made the same mistake when I started in the hobby. I got a 10 gallon and had way too many fish in there before it was cycled. Don't give up just keep up the water changes till the nitrites stay at 0.
 
in addition to water changes, add one tablespoon of salt per ten gallons of water to your tank. nitrite negatively affects the blood's ability to carry oxygen though the body, thus suffocating the fish. salt contains chloride which is preferentially absorbed through the gills, and reduces the toxic effect of the nitrites by allowing the uptake of oxygen.
 
When I add the salt to the water, should I dissolve it before I put it in, or just add it to the tank? Thanks for all your great advice!!! :bowing:
 
always best to predissolve the salt in some aquarium water BEFORE you put it in the tank. putting it in the filter sometimes doesn't work ... salt flows over/around the filter media.
 
Don't cry! We'll get you through this.

You may want to add a bacterial supplement like Cycle or StressZyme (there are dozens of such products out there). They seed the biological filter to get it going faster. It sounds like your bacteria are not able to keep up with the fish stock in your tank.

The first stage of waste is ammonia, which is released directly by the fish. Then bacteria break it down to nitrite, and finally nitrate. While the first two are potently toxic, the last is more benign but also has long-term effects.

These bacteria (Nitrosomas and Nitrobacter) are present in very low concentrations in the air and tap water. That's why it takes so long to cycle. Using the supplements will quickly increase beneficial bacteria populations, much quicker than relying on nature. In my opinion, they can't hurt. I guess unless you have a problem with low dissolved oxygen, in which case the bacteria will compete with your fish for O2. You can tell if you have low oxygen levels because your fish will be hyperventilating and trying to breathe at the surface of the water, where more oxygen has diffused into the water from the air.

Live plants are also always helpful because they do the exact opposite of fish (during daylight hours) by producing oxygen from carbon dioxide, and using up ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate as food.

For details, check out the article titled "Cycling a tank" in the Article Corner. (Sorry, don't know how to include links in replies yet).

In an emergency, you can also try a product called Amquel Plus that chemically removes ammonia and other harmful nitrogen-based waste products (including nitrite and nitrate). It is a simple salt, I believe, and probably safe for your fish. Someone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong. You must be very tired of doing emergency water changes at this point. So you might want to consider this option.
 
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You may want to add a bacterial supplement like Cycle or StressZyme (there are dozens of such products out there)
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yes, there are indeed dozens of such products out there and NONE OF THEM WORK. well, a product called Biospira does seem to work but only if the dealer has kept it refridgerated at the shop. don't waste your money on the other 'dozens'.

You can tell if you have low oxygen levels because your fish will be hyperventilating and trying to breathe at the surface of the water, where more oxygen has diffused into the water from the air.
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it's nearly impossible to have "low oxygen" levels in your aquarium unless you have a heavily planted tank and the water is stagnant. Let’s say you have a 135 gallon tank that has been stocked with 5 lbs. of healthy fish. The water in the tank is kept at 79°F with the pH at 7. Like most people, you are a bit heavy with the fish food. Your fish are being fed 1% of their body weight per day (approximately 25 grams or almost 1/3 of a cup of dry food). Using long established formulas from aquaculture, this is how the math works out:

Your 5 lbs. of fish will require 0.9 grams of oxygen per hour. This equals 21.6 grams of oxygen per day.

These fish will produce 0.8 grams (several drops) of NH3-N per day. The amount of oxygen required by the bio-filter to convert this Ammonia to Nitrate and satisfy the requirements of the bacteria is 5.4 grams of oxygen per day. The total biological oxygen demand for your tank is 27 grams of oxygen per day.

Air stones are by far the least expensive and the most efficient way to aerate an aquarium. Aeration can take place in the tank, sump, filter or protein skimmer. It makes no difference where the oxygen is introduced into the system, just so long as it is present in sufficient quantities.

A small, high quality air stone (1.5"x .75") will flow slightly less than 0.10 cubic feet of air per minute. Three (3) of these stones will add 1.8 grams of oxygen to the water per hour, 43.2 grams of oxygen per day by creating 'turnover' in the tank whereby CO2 is exchanged for O2 at the surface.

Oxygen saturation will occur somewhere between 6 and 8 parts per million (this number depends upon temperature, salinity and elevation). This means that the water molecules have absorbed as much oxygen as they can easily hold under the present conditions. Any oxygen taken in beyond this point will be released back into the atmosphere with the least amount of disturbance in the water.

75% oxygen saturation is common in the well aerated home aquarium, while 95% is quite difficult to achieve.

Since your aquarium has an oxygen demand of 27 grams, and the air stones are providing an oxygen potential of 43.2 grams, there is no danger of low oxygen stress. Your tank will utilize and store only a certain amount of the available oxygen. And while it is true that you may have a tremendous amount of surface area in your biofilter, it is highly unlikely that the bacteria will utilize all of it.

Remember, nitrifying bacteria are present in levels that are directly proportional to the bioload of the tank. It makes no difference to the bacteria how big your filter is. If they need only 10% of the surface area, that is what they will use. Approximately 80% of the tank’s oxygen demand goes to the fish, with the remaining 20% going to the bacteria for the nitrification of organic waste.

thus, your average fish tank is not consuming nearly as much oxygen to process the biological waste as you may have imagined.
 
It *may* be helpful if you know someone with a well-established tank to get some gravel, driftwood, a plant, or better yet- some of their filter, and put that in your tank- that could carry along beneficial bacteria. Before i set up my last tank i transfered several of the plants that were in a tank that has been setup a long time to the new one and that has seemed to help some with keeping ammonia down during the entire cycling process.

Best of luck!
Keith
 
plah831 said:
These bacteria (Nitrosomas and Nitrobacter) are present in very low concentrations in the air and tap water. That's why it takes so long to cycle.
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Nitrobacter are not present in FW aquaria. This is why Cycle does not work and and Bio Spira does. Nitrobacters will process the ammonia very quickly and then die off, which in many cases will cause huge nitrite spikes in the tank. Not good.

IMO Cycle is snake oil as is any product that contains nitrobacters.

Roan
 
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