i have someone in my area thats breeding queen arabesque and king tiger plecos. i think they look like garbage. the juvinals don t have as prevalent of color as the wild ones. i belive that as more and more people are able to breed these fish the less we ll see of the wild one and the hobby will be flooded with garbage just like african cichlids
pleco breeding good or bad for the hobby
- Thread starter jd_7655
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I know people breeding zebras and gold nuggets, and they are excellent. I guess the colourings a function of diet and substrate - I've also thought King Tigers changed colour a lot anyway (and usually for the worse).
I don't really believe we'll see lots of farming of these fish as the broods are generally too small to commercially work well, especially considering the amount of work involved but you never know. You can't really just dump a load of zebra or gold nuggets ina pond and expect to fish out a ton of fry later.
I have seen a lot of adonis plecs recently that come in batches all of the same size. These are being farmed 'onsite' in S America, and look excellent to me. I believe a similar project is being started for zebras. This for me is the way to go - it preserves natural stocks in the river, increases availability and provides income to indigenous peoples
I don't really believe we'll see lots of farming of these fish as the broods are generally too small to commercially work well, especially considering the amount of work involved but you never know. You can't really just dump a load of zebra or gold nuggets ina pond and expect to fish out a ton of fry later.
I have seen a lot of adonis plecs recently that come in batches all of the same size. These are being farmed 'onsite' in S America, and look excellent to me. I believe a similar project is being started for zebras. This for me is the way to go - it preserves natural stocks in the river, increases availability and provides income to indigenous peoples
As long as the stocks are occasionally beefed up with some fresh wild genes this isn't a bad thing. It means less people catching wild fish. The only problem comes when the same stock is used over and over again.
farm raised fish are better quality. but i m compareing plecos to african cichlids in reguards to flooding the hoby with tank raised garbage. i know someone who is breeding plecos and i ve seen the results. i ve seen lots of farm raised queen arebesque plecos that look cool and i ve seen f1 q.a. plecos and there junk compared to thier f0 parents
I'd have to disagree there, the first few generations removed from wild parents usually tend to show better color and markings, as people intentionally and unintentionally pick the best color in their breeding stock. As the generations progress, and inbreeding becomes an issue, then you would see deteroriation of the blood lines, but definitely not immediately. Any lack of color or other issues you have with F1 fry are most likely environmentally influenced.
With that said, my F1 Queen Arabesque fry are only 1.25" and already show great patterning and good color.
I don't personally understand the idea that it would be beneficial to continue collecting these fish, and putting their numbers at risk in their native waterways, rather than supporting our hobby with responsibly bred fish from hobbyists. That's just my opinion though.
Barbie
With that said, my F1 Queen Arabesque fry are only 1.25" and already show great patterning and good color.
I don't personally understand the idea that it would be beneficial to continue collecting these fish, and putting their numbers at risk in their native waterways, rather than supporting our hobby with responsibly bred fish from hobbyists. That's just my opinion though.
Barbie
Well the argument is that the people doing the catching have to do something to make a living, and that unfortunately in both of the areas of most interest to the aquarium trade (amazonia and s pacific islands) the alternatives to catching fish for the aquarium trade are much poorer cash earners and also enviromentally damaging. In amazonia the real alternatives are deforestation for logging and deforestation for cash cropping. It is unfortunately not possible for, or to expect, the local peoples to return to foraging and low demand sustainable farming as it would likely involve a reduction in quality of life.
Now for many fish this works well, but for plecos it doesn't - without careful management the numbers of many pleco populations aren't big enough to take a lot of abuse, and to cause a crash. The current popularity of plecs, and the high prices being paid have undoubtedly caused problems for some populations, including obviously zebra plecs.
The ideal compromise for me is for the farming of these fish to take place on site in their original enviroment. This can , and is being done - have you seen any big batches of simialrly sized adonis plecs recently? These are the product. I have recently seen a lot of similarly sized nuggets in a tank together - I wonder about these too? I believe they are working with zebras too. I know Matt Clarke from Practical Fishkeeping has visited Project Piaba and will do a piece on this and a species list would be interesting.
For my money no efforts by American or European breeders can match onsite farming in S America for a complete envirofriendly package.
Now for many fish this works well, but for plecos it doesn't - without careful management the numbers of many pleco populations aren't big enough to take a lot of abuse, and to cause a crash. The current popularity of plecs, and the high prices being paid have undoubtedly caused problems for some populations, including obviously zebra plecs.
The ideal compromise for me is for the farming of these fish to take place on site in their original enviroment. This can , and is being done - have you seen any big batches of simialrly sized adonis plecs recently? These are the product. I have recently seen a lot of similarly sized nuggets in a tank together - I wonder about these too? I believe they are working with zebras too. I know Matt Clarke from Practical Fishkeeping has visited Project Piaba and will do a piece on this and a species list would be interesting.
For my money no efforts by American or European breeders can match onsite farming in S America for a complete envirofriendly package.
I have mixed emotions, I like wild caught fish because it seems with many fish that you have to be wary of poor breeding practices and sources, but also worry about the stress on the environment. Many Pleco's are hard to get, and expensive because they are very rare, while others are everywhere. I would love to see someone breed the Blue eyed pleco and get them back on the Market, the general Buzz is that no one can find them anymore in the wild, and they may even be extinct except for the specimens still living in aquariums. I know I can't find any for sale, and used to see them here and there at times. I don't know how accurate this is, but have heard it from several differnt suppliers at good LFS's that used to sell these fish
The argument that it would put people in South America out of business if we captive raise more fish makes no sense, IMO. There will always be fish that we can't raise, or that aren't economically feasible to do anything with but import. The people that collect fish in Colombia are paid $6 per 1000 corydoras that they bring in. It doesn't matter what type they are, so of course they catch the ones that are easier to find. THAT is what controls why some fish are not readily available and cost more.
The Rio Magdalena was polluted by a gas truck spilling in it a few years ago, and the fish population was so decimated that the collectors don't bother to collect fish there anymore. There are other tributaries that might contain them, but they are under guerrilla control according to Shane Linder and no amount of money offered to a collector or a guide is enough to get them to go looking for blue eyeds. In a country where the leading cause of death is bullets, can you blame them? There's an article about blue eyeds and the reasons for their rarity at planetcatfish in depth.
Barbie
The Rio Magdalena was polluted by a gas truck spilling in it a few years ago, and the fish population was so decimated that the collectors don't bother to collect fish there anymore. There are other tributaries that might contain them, but they are under guerrilla control according to Shane Linder and no amount of money offered to a collector or a guide is enough to get them to go looking for blue eyeds. In a country where the leading cause of death is bullets, can you blame them? There's an article about blue eyeds and the reasons for their rarity at planetcatfish in depth.
Barbie
Oh well it makes sense to me, but we do agree at some level.
'There will always be fish that we can't raise, or that aren't economically feasible to do anything with but import.' You're obviously doing some breeding - do you think farming of baryancistrus, Hypancistrus et al is commercially possible, or is it just a hobbyist byline?
'There will always be fish that we can't raise, or that aren't economically feasible to do anything with but import.' You're obviously doing some breeding - do you think farming of baryancistrus, Hypancistrus et al is commercially possible, or is it just a hobbyist byline?