Pleco tank questions

[saganco]

I need all kinds of help! I will post this message in several categories on the forum due to the diversity of questions I’m asking. I have just purchased 4 used tanks (will be picking them up this coming weekend and getting them set up next week) - and need some help with “placement” of my different fishies and how best to set up the other tanks for breeders. I have already established the following tanks and present occupants:

55g (footprint 48x12) - various types of platies and mollies, a pair of Rainbow cichlids (Herotilapia spinosa), one Burmese Botia, 6 SAE’s, 3 or 4 small tetras, and some ghost shrimp.

40g (footprint 36x12) – breeder tank for Honduran Red Point cichlids and their offspring and one petrified Rainbow Shark that will not let me catch him.

65g (footprint 36x18) – platies, mollies, 6 Rainbowfish, a pair (not yet spawning) of Cryptoheros Sajicas (T-Bar Cichlids), 10 juvie Spinosissimus (sp?) cichlids.

29g #1 (footprint 30x12)– grow out tank for my HRP fry (presently at around 3/4” long

29g #2 – shrimp and teeny Rainbow Cichlid fry (I know, silly waste of a larger tank – planning to move them to a 5 gallon tank later).

10g – overflow tank to help separate problem “kids” – presently has a pair of Tuxedo Swordtails, one Rainbow Shark (got bullied so badly by the one that’s in the 40g), one Burmese Botia (different than the one in the 55g), and various platies.

Other tanks soon to be set up: two 65g (same as the one that’s already established), one 90g (footprint 48x18), and one 55g (footprint 48x12). I will also be getting a few 2.5g and 5g’s for fry.

Plus I will be “inheriting” these fish: one 6-7 inch Tiger Oscar, one 4 inch Red Devil, one 6 inch Pike Cichlid, one 6 inch Pleco (unknown species), and two 3 inch Silver Dollars from one person’s tank. From another person’s tank, there will be a Silver Dollar and some kind of blue and black spotted catfish (unknown species for sure – and unknown on the size of either of these.

So some questions are:
Which tanks are best suited for the breeding of the cichlids? Which cichlids will get the best return on my investment (other than the ones I already have)? Which species of Plecos will be the best money makers (excluding zebras)? Would the 55g with two dividers in it (sponge filters with it?) be the best option for 3 pair of Plecos? I have read that it’s best to take out the fry just before the yolk sack is used up and put them in a small grow out tank (2.5g ok?) and do daily water changes. How would you guys suggest rearranging the tanks and the fish that I have as well as the ones I will be picking up this coming weekend? With the fact that 4 tanks are NOT set up yet as a factor for temporary housing as well…

Things are further complicated by the fact that I really don’t have any cycled tanks available to use when bringing home other folks fish, and am a bit scared to put them into my existing tanks endangering my established tanks and healthy fish. How long could I use something like a Rubbermaid tub while doing a “bio spira” cycle on the brand new tanks if need be? I can move the fish out of the 10g and into the 65g, then the shrimp out of the 29g and into the 10g, then put some of the new fish (first batch of incoming would only be one silver dollar and the catfish) into the 29g if that would be better in the interim.

I know this is a lot of questions, but I’ll kinda spread it out in different areas so folks can go with whatever questions are in their area of expertise. As you can see, I seem to have “bought my way into a corner” so to speak, and some of these folks are moving, so I have to get the tanks picked up (leaving me with extra fish soon that need a place to live). I certainly appreciate any and all help!

 

[wataugachicken]

First things first - I would NOT suggest buying any additional cichlids or plecos for the purposes of breeding them. Most people will agree with me when i say that there is little money to be had in that kind of venture. If you do decide to go down that route, do your research first - do you plan on selling the babies through the mail or will your LFS's buy any from you? Some stores might give you 20-30 cents per fish, others might have a policy against buying from anyone other than their dealers. For example, i can't find bristlenose plecos at any LFS in my area, even though there is a breeder living in town. I found this breeder through an ebay auction and she's been doing it for 6 years, but time and time again has been refused by local stores. Unless you are dedicated to the effort and are willing to take the chance to lose your money, it's not worth it. Or on the other hand, some fish like convicts are so prolific that many stores are offered more fish than they can sell, and so you don't get much more than a few cents for them. For the time and money it takes to get fish to a size where they can be sold, it's only profitable if you're focused on only that project. Then again, if you have a local fish club you may be able to sell and trade through that venue.

As far as the new fish and rubbermaid containers - if the uncycled tanks are going to be bigger than the plastic tubs, then just put the fish into the tanks. I've read several posts saying how people are keeping their fish in a 5 or 10g bucket while the new 30/50g/ etc. . tank cycles - more water is always better than less water. just do fishy cycles and keep up with your water changes. bio-spira is a good idea but be forewarned that it's not a miracle product and most tanks still have a 1-2 week cycle, and sometimes it doesn't work at all by no fault of your own.

new 90 - oscar, silver dollars, pleco and unknown catfish
new 65 A- red devil and pike cichlid
new 65 B - divided - Rainbow cichlid pair & Red Point pair
65 - all platies and mollies, all rainbowfish, SAE's, loach.
55 - grow-out tank for all fry
new 55 - grow-out for the juvie. . . whatevers. cichlids.
40 - T-Bar pair - being isolated may help promote breeding by making them feel safer
29 A - community tank for "bad" fish in 10g, shrimp maybe

2.5's and 5g's are a bad idea for fry because they are just too small, and too much work. get another large grow-out tank (55g+) and then you can have a lot of fry in there and do one change on a big tank instead of 10 changes on all little tanks.

 

[saganco]

do you plan on selling the babies through the mail or will your LFS's buy any from you? Pretty much internet - not many other choices for us, we're too far from LFS's (over 2 hours one way).
. . . tank cycles - more water is always better than less water. just do fishy cycles and keep up with your water changes. Weekly 50% still ok for the cycling period when I start out with a cloned tank?

new 90 - oscar, silver dollars, pleco and unknown catfish
new 65 A- red devil and pike cichlid I actually think the pike will not stay with me, probably will sell it later on, and if I do, since the RD was with the ones listed above before in a 55g, could I put the RD back together with the others?
new 65 B - divided - Rainbow cichlid pair & Red Point pair Is an 18"x18" enough area for a breeding pair? Am I to assume by the later tank occupants you laid out, that I should take the fry young and move them all out of the 65g? Best idea for a divider for a 36x18x24 tank - most divider materials will allow the fry to corss over to the other side won't they?
65 - all platies and mollies, all rainbowfish, SAE's, loach. Sounded good except for lumping all the SAE's together, their "job" was to tidy up each tank. Are you saying this because they won't work out with cichlids?
55 - grow-out tank for all fry Holy cow! And I just thought they were LOST in the 29g!! Just out of curiosity, why the 55g rather than a little smaller tank?
new 55 - grow-out for the juvie. . . whatevers. cichlids. So when they get to a certain size, no matter the breed, I move them from one 55 to the other?
40 - T-Bar pair - being isolated may help promote breeding by making them feel safer That might work, though I think she's still just a little too young, but I guess that won't matter, they'll be in a good place when they are ready.
29 A - community tank for "bad" fish in 10g, shrimp maybe I assume you're not saying for them to be together (shrimp and bad fish) or I'd be missing a lot of shrimp!

2.5's and 5g's are a bad idea for fry because they are just too small, and too much work. get another large grow-out tank (55g+) and then you can have a lot of fry in there and do one change on a big tank instead of 10 changes on all little tanks. Well there is some good logic there... still 50% weekly or should it be different for fry tanks? Wouldn't it be more challenging to "sort out" each species when you go to move them or sell them?

Thanks!

 

[wataugachicken]

Cycling - instead of 50% weekly, do water changes as often as necessary to keep ammonia and nitrite under .25 for the duration.

RD - yes, if it is not too aggressive. i know the pike cichlids can be mean, i don't know if the RD would beat on the oscar.

SAE's - you could spread them out. since they were already all together i thought maybe you had a school of them and wanted them together. they're probably fast enough to get away from the cichlids.

55g fry grow-out - the more water there is the faster and bigger they can grow. if you want to sell them and get any kind of return their initial growth period has to be as fast as possible. once they get some size it won't seem so empty.

55g juvie - i meant those 10 Spinosissimus you have, until they get a little bigger. after that. . . dunno. not familiar with the name.

shrimp - yeah, keep them in the 10g or something - i guess the shark and botia would eat them? that's what the 'maybe' was for.

fry tanks - the more water changes the better. start out with babies and the bacteria will grow as the fish grow, so no cycle. do water changes depending upon nitrate results. . . keep nitrate at or below 10ppm for best growth. the bigger the tank, the more dilution of water, the larger margin for waste buildup. it could be more difficult to get them out at selling time then again, if you have two fry tanks (large) then you could separate species, or separate by size. keep the tanks bare bottomed with easily removable caves and decor. that will ease the catching (and culling) processes and prevent buildup of physical wastes.

 

[saganco]

SAE's - you could spread them out. since they were already all together i thought maybe you had a school of them and wanted them together. they're probably fast enough to get away from the cichlids.
They were together in small schools in several tanks, most was 6 in a group

fry tanks - the more water changes the better. start out with babies and the bacteria will grow as the fish grow, so no cycle. do water changes depending upon nitrate results. . . keep nitrate at or below 10ppm for best growth. the bigger the tank, the more dilution of water, the larger margin for waste buildup. it could be more difficult to get them out at selling time then again, if you have two fry tanks (large) then you could separate species, or separate by size. keep the tanks bare bottomed with easily removable caves and decor. that will ease the catching (and culling) processes and prevent buildup of physical wastes.Are you saying to just start that tank cloned and let it ride until the params say it's time to change water?

Ok, all but two of the new fish are out. The flaky gal who WAS going to sell the 55g to me along with the oscar, rd, pike, silver dollars, and pleco - just sold it right out from under me after I had told her that I wanted it (geesh, some people!). So that eliminates several fish and one tank. Plus we've decided just to clone the tanks (I only mentioned the "how do I?" in the original post because I "thought" that we ended up with spikes anyway, but hubby says we didn't - so we are going to happily clone the tanks). So those questions/issues are off the table now.

Because I rearranged a couple of tanks last night (the rainbow cichlids were just about to bless me with eggs in the tank that we're taking down to replace with the 90g - so I scrambled to rearrage tank occupants so the happy family now has one of the 29g to themselves). The current occupants and tanks available for "rearranging" are down to (and please keep in mind that I'm still looking for the right cichlids and plecos to breed):

Two 65g, one 90g, one 30g, two 10g, one 5g, and two 2.5g available.
Various types of platies and mollies, Burmese Botia, a bunch of SAE’s, 3 or 4 small tetras, Rainbow sharks (2), 6 Rainbowfish, a pair (not yet spawning) of Cryptoheros Sajicas (T-Bar Cichlids), 10 juvie Spinosissimus (sp?) cichlids, a pair of Tuxedo Swordtails, and ghost and cherry shrimp, a Silver Dollar and some kind of blue and black spotted catfish.

These questions remain:
Which tanks are best suited for the breeding of the cichlids (wanting two species if possible)? Which cichlids will get the best return on my investment (other than the ones I already have)? Which species of Plecos will be the best money makers (excluding zebras) and I'm hoping for 2-3 types? Would the 55g with two dividers in it (sponge filters with it?) be the best option for 3 pair of Plecos? I have read that it’s best to take out the fry just before the yolk sack is used up and put them in a small grow out tank (2.5g ok?) and do daily water changes. How would you guys suggest rearranging the tanks and the fish that I have as well as the ones I am planning on breeding (yet unknown)?

Thanks everyone for your answers and time!

 

[saganco]

Bump for the modified questions above.