Puff Daddy needs help

S

songchi

songchi
Mar 5, 2006
5
0
0
Bloomington In.
Puff Daddy needs help...please

Have 30 gallon with ocean sand. Emperor 400 with bio wheels and new cartridge filters. Salinity is between 1.018 and 1.014. Water is within range according to LFS.
Variety in diet for heath. 3 young puffs and one adult. All seem to get along together. All are colored well with glowing heads and good appetites.
3 younger puffs act fine, sleeping on bottom, checking out everything. Have had them around 3 to 4 weeks But.... Puff daddy, have had a year or so, seems agitated suddenly, the last few days...occasional daily grey stress lines from head to tail, but color is still good. Actions are what I would call occasional "thrashing" around filter intake and heater...hanging at front top of tank in water jets from filter. No visible signs of parasites. Pet store says Melafix...not helping. They also said raise salinity to full marine. Can't do that yet because of young ones...or can I? They don't know what to do. Please help...I just don't know what to do.
 
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i know having most types of puffers is not recommended more than one per tank, i have a setup very similar to your, mines a 29G w/ an emperor 400 and a powerhead. i'm only going by possible if their Green spotted puffers (most readily available and brackish) your larger puffer will more than likely "bully" or even kill the smaller ones, they are very territorial, for the most part. also going by standards for GSP's the SG you have is too much salt for the small puffers, if they are 2" or smaller, they need to be in about 1/2 that amount of salt. You stated that they seem to be getting along fine, but doesn't sound like your large puffer is getting along, sounds like he's stressing pretty bad. If your going to keep this setup, which i don't recommend, you will need to have lots of caves, plants and such to keep the line of sight away from the puffers, some distrations you could say. but if they are GSP's, you need 30Gallons FOR EACH PUFFER. that would be way too many puffers in a 30, they are very messy and your bioload probably wouldn't handle it. Like littlepuff said, check your water parameters, i bet you have some mini-cycling going on. P.S. puffer + ammonia / nitrite = dead puffer. puffers don't handle cycling well at all. of course, most of this is for GSP's but most of it applies to general puffers. also if you have figure 8's that's way too much salt.
 
Puff Daddy

Green spotted puffers. 3 are 1/2" and Puff daddy is 2".
Before coming here he was at his last home for 2 1/2 years...so he is at least a bit older than 3 years.

And they do have many places to be, caves, live plants, bridges...but seem to want to stay together. Nor do they nip or fight...even at feeding time. They seem to want to stay close to each other.

Water conditions... they told me today the tank is cycling again and they don't know why. AS follows Salinity 1.015...ph 8...nitrite 5.0...nitrate 100...
ammonia .1

2 small water changes today. Salinity is 1.012 right now. Water is clearing. Babies are resting on bottom but Puff Daddy goes from corner to middle then back at the top of tank. I have researched parasites all day... the flashing and rubbing...? I still think this was his problem in the beginning. How long does it take to detoxify...?
 
songchi said:
Green spotted puffers. 3 are 1/2" and Puff daddy is 2".
Before coming here he was at his last home for 2 1/2 years...so he is at least a bit older than 3 years.

And they do have many places to be, caves, live plants, bridges...but seem to want to stay together. Nor do they nip or fight...even at feeding time. They seem to want to stay close to each other.

Water conditions... they told me today the tank is cycling again and they don't know why. AS follows Salinity 1.015...ph 8...nitrite 5.0...nitrate 100...
ammonia .1

2 small water changes today. Salinity is 1.012 right now. Water is clearing. Babies are resting on bottom but Puff Daddy goes from corner to middle then back at the top of tank. I have researched parasites all day... the flashing and rubbing...? I still think this was his problem in the beginning. How long does it take to detoxify...?
Click to expand...

3 years old and 2 1/2 inches, that sounds very small to me. i'm wondering if he wasn't stunned some time in his life. The reason your tank is cycling again is because of the HUGE bioload these fish make, also changing your SG that fast can kill off your bacteria. it's suggested that no more than .002 change in SG at a time to give your bacteria time to adjust, this is what i've read, can't swear by it though. The nitrite that high is DEADLY to pufferfish. you must not waste time with small water changes. 50% water changes as many times as it takes to lower those levels. you might have to do 2 or 3 a day to lower those. your fish are suffering at those levels. YOU MUST START ASAP. the damage you are doing could be permenant or fatal.. PLease if you care about your fish start doing changes ASAP. the test only goes up to 5ppm right? so yours could even be higher. your puffers should all be in a SG of around 1.005 to 1.008, although one could argue that the puff daddy since he's 3 should be in around 1.010 to 1.015 SG, but there is much debate on this subject. now back to the tank, it's still too small for 4 puffer fish. a 30G on here with 4 puffers? i'm surprised you haven't been crucified on here for that, YET.
 
Puff Daddy...

To any one that is interested...
At this time I have one 17 year old lab springer mix on heart meds...her 14 year old daughter on thyroid, allergy and hormone meds. 5 indoor cats from 8 to 13 years old. 3 outside stray cats. And feed a variety of possums,deer and racoons. I pay at least $1,000 a month at vets in checkups,surgeries, and meds. That is not counting the special diets of some. So money is not the problem nor is time..I don't work. These puffs are the only living things I have ever bought. They are, as are the others, my "children". But I am new to fish, except for Bettas. I have done everything I have been told to do by the people that were suppose to be experts. So now what..? All I can do is stuggle on. I will do everything I can for them...despite all the conflictng info given. I called a vet today.. calling back at 3 p.m.

At this time water is crystal clear...babies look great. Puff Daddy is still at top of tank but color is better. Another water change coming in a few minutes. And taking water to test again.

I came here for help...as well as going to other sites and forums. I am doing what I can and learning as I go. It totally tears me up to think I am responsible for their distress. I cried yesterday...I cried this morning.

So If anybody wants to trash me...feel free. Just know I am doing everything I've been told.
And didn't all of you start somewhere?
 
absolutely we were all noobs at one time or another. I"m sorry if I sounded a little abrupt but as my name and avatar suggests, i'm a big fan of puffers. i'm only trying to help you out, if i know that those little puffers are suffering, them of course i'm probably going to show it some. The 30G should be left for mr. Puff Daddy and the other 3 (if taking them back is not an option, i know i would have a hard time taking back fishy's i bought) then need to be moved to at least a 55G (i say this because sometimes that is the biggest size readily available in some places) but I think if you could find a 75 or 90, that would be even better. prices ($150 started kit at petsmart / walmart on a 55G with heater, filter, hoold, lights, and some other junk. i've noticed that a petsmart will give you better equipment with the starter kits than walmart or you could go to one of these places and get a tank and maybe buy better parts on some places like www.drsfostersmith.com. Since your puffers are so small, by doing plenty of water changes, you should be able to get by for a little while, but please for your fishy's sake, try and make other arrangements for the 3 babies. Also you need to pick up some test kits for yourself, around $20 for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate liquid tube tests. Also because of the big bioload of these fish, you might want to try and use amquel plus or prime as your chlorine remover, since this stuff will help break down the ammonia / nitrites / nitrates also. Please keep posting, for I am very interested in this thread. Feel free to ask plenty of questions also.

Best of luck,
Pufferpoison
 
This hobby can get very expensive. Maybe it's not a good time to get into fishkeeping. Sounds like you've got your plate full. I've got a housefull of animals too. I can't imagine how I'd deal with them having any serious happen to them. {{{HUGS}}}


Kim
 
The tank is indequate for the GSPs, if not in absolute terms right this minute, certainly long term. The older GSP is severely stunted, whether from prior housing in a too-small tank or diet or water conditions I can't say. An adult GSP is 6" standard length.

Were the new fish QT'd? They may have introduced gill or gut parasites, or they and their feeding and waste may have overloaded the filtration capacity of the the setup. With no water parameters other thsn specific gravity, there is too little info to tell. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate reading, not ranges or judgements, are needed along with pH. "Within range" is unfortunately completely and totally meaningless, especially from LFS staff. Also, normal upkeep practices are needed - water change percentage and frequency, substrate depth and upkeep, filter upkeep, etc.

Sorry, but without a lot more info, there are not really a lot of things that could be suggested that would be pure guesswork.
 
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