Seeking Help With Diagnosis

Mr_Obsidian

Always Learning More...
Nov 5, 2006
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Greetings everyone.

This is my first post here and I hate to be a harbinger of negativity, but it now seems very likely that I have some sick fish to nurse.

I am hoping that someone with more experience might be able to diagnose the problem, and that I might be able to rectify it before any of my finned friends perish. I will list my tankmates and general info first, then give a detailed summary of my observations.

28 Gallon Bowfront Tank
30 Gallon filter

PH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0.0
Nitrites - 0.0
Nitrates - 10

FISH:
1 - Red Fire Dwarf Gourami
1 - Powder Blue Dwarf Gourami
1 - Dojo Loach
5 - Black Skirt Tetras
1 - Rainbow Shark
1 - Otocinclus


My tank has been established for a few months, and until recently all has been splendid. About one week ago I made the mistake of adding a green spotted puffer to my tank (only for two days -- long story short, I was sold the wrong fish and returned him promptly). Since the puffer came and went, everything's gone to Hell...

A few days ago I noticed that my blue gourami had a string of poop, approximately one to two inches in length, hanging from his underside. After twenty minutes or so, it fell off. This happened three or four more times that night alone. He was eating as usual, so I assumed he was just constipated and decided to watch him closely in the meantime. I also tossed in a couple of peas and a tiny bit of Romaine lettuce. The following day I did a gravel vacuum / 40% water change. Everything seemed alright, but the blue gourami was still pooping long strands, almost constantly (one would fall off and another would start). Still, his appetite was strong.
The next day (yesterday) I came home to a disgusting sight. The bottom of my tank was littered with white/beige turds of varying length and diameter. At first I thought they were worms, but further inspection proved otherwise. I had never even seen fish poop in my tank for the previous two months, and now I had a veritable minefield!!! I was a bit preturbed.

Oddly enough, the blue gourami seems to be fine. He is still eating, is very active, and looks quite healthy, but he is now excreting clear strands. Some of the tetras, although normal in their behavior, look as if they have bloated bellies; so does the Otocinclus.
The fish I am most worried about, however, is the red fire gourami. When I first put him in the tank, he immediately established dominance over the smaller blue gourami.
Over the last couple of days, he has become listless, just staying in one spot on the side of the tank. His colors seem to have faded from a vibrant orange with blue fins, to an almost brownish tint, with pronounced spots (roughly the size of a dime) of advanced fading. His belly also appears to be bloated, and he possesses little appetite or interest-- his temperment could be described as spacey and apathetic. Whenever he does try to move around, the blue gourami chases him away, as if to say "you are tainted, stay over there." I have not noticed him pooping, so I cannot say if it resembles the forementioned clear "sausage-casing" excrement.
He is now exhibiting signs of laboured breathing ("gasping", rapid gill fluctuations), and this is obviously a bad sign.


My best guess currently would be internal parasites, but I don't want to jump the gun. I do not currently have a QT tank, so medication must go to the community, be that food or general med.
I've added two tablespoons of aquarium salt (I don't want to add much more, because the loach will not tolerate such conditions), and am running a medium (5") airstone 24/7. I've cut down feeding by about 50% (they are now getting flakes and half an algae wafer, once per day; no frozen foods until I fix this problem).

I will continue to observe my fish carefully and at length, but I would really appreciate advice or suggestions from those with experience in dealing with such symptoms/disease. I am grateful for any diagnoses or recommendations for medication. This is my first time running an aquarium and also dealing with disease: I'd like to get it right sooner rather than later!

Thanks for your time and consideration.


~ Mr_Obsidian
 
I can't be 100% positive, but my best guess is a parasite as well. I would go get the parasite food and feed that to them. Worst case scenario is that you are wrong and have to try something else.
 
I purchased a Dwarf Gourami for my tank and it had see through loooong poop(from the day I got it :( ), I was new to keeping fish and thought it was normal..
Until I came here and researched looong poop.
Anyway I researched and it got really long one morning so I ruled out other causes as he had had it since I got him.
I ended up buying Jungle Internal Parasite Guard and Jungle Pepso (use both products together) I followed the directions.
Basically treat the tank with guard every other day for 3 days(follow water changes on directions) feed Pepso for 3 days, I fed it for 4 days along with some real food on the 4th and my gourami is completely cured.
It sounds like your gourami is sicker than mine as it has the dark spots but this was the treatment I used and it worked very well.
Good Luck I hope you are able to save your Gourami's.
 
a couple things I can think of would cause this.

1. internal parasites, could be any number of them..parasite clear is effective as is anti parasite food. if yoou live in many states in the US the food contains metro, prazi and levamisole hcl..the fish tend to not eat this stuff but you can mix it with other food (wet) let it soak then feed the fish..blood worms(chironimidae larva) are very effective when this is done. treat the entire tank as the white stuff on the bottom ..mean there is a possibilty that some of the parasites egss may have passed thru.
be prepared to retreat..tho I think fenbenzadole may kil the eggs(it's either that or flubenzadole that does that, also effective)
I have found that with angels and other discus.it may take a few days or a week ot more for them to start acting normal.

btw, it the fish have stopped eating you can treat the water(not near as effective) I have done this several times and it work enough that you can get the fish to start 'mouthing' the food. the fish does not need to eat the food to ingest the meds.
also you can find fenbenzadole also effect..
2. bacterial infection..if the parasite treatments don't work..you can isolate the fish and treat with maracyn, maracynII
good luck
this combination may wipeout your bacterial filter..so it is recommended to treat in a hospital tank.
 
Problem found!

Well, I spent the night at my girlfriend's house, and today we stopped at Petsmart, where I bought some Jungle Internal/External Parasite meds. When I arrived at home, however, the red gourami was displaying obvious signs of dropsy, including "pineconing," popeye, and more bloating. So, I immediately drove back to Petsmart and bought some Maracyn - 2 and began treating. I will follow the 5-day treatment instructions, then perform a gravel vacuum/water change, remove the filter, and most likely treat with the Jungle Parasite meds, since I am concerned that the stringy clear poop is an indication that the dropsy may have been caused by internal parasites.

Since I still do not have a hospital tank (hope to get one around X-mas), I just treated the whole aquarium. I figured it was a good idea anyways, to just clear the whole tank in case other fish have dropsy, but are not yet displaying symptoms; also as a bacterial safeguard. Supposedly, the Maracyn will not disrupt the biological filter but I will be keeping a close watch on levels regardless (I check parameters daily anyways, so it's no big deal).

Thank you all for the replies and sound advice. I hope the gourami can recover, but I know dropsy is pretty nasty and tough to recover from.

Any further advice is greatly appreciated!

~ Mr. Obsidian
 
Side Question.

Regarding dropsy:

I've read that this disorder's cause is notoriously difficult to qualify, and that dropsy is very tough to treat by the time obvious symptoms are noticeable.

Are there observable signs that point to this condition, which manifest before symptoms like "pineconing?"

Frankly, it sucks to medicate an animal while knowing that it will probably die anyways, because you were too late to save it in time.
 
I'm not very sure pineconing sounds like the demise I think.
However the other symptoms you are refering too could be anything but you had the stringy poop and then the dark spot and other symptoms include bloating etc.
It is probably a bit late as your fish is sounding pretty sick so probably wont eat but if it happens again did you buy the Jungle Pepso food to go with the guard? Because you kind of need to use the two if you have a fish that will eat (may need to not feed it a few days for it to eat) The Pepso cleans them out otherwise the guard alone is probably only killing what is in the tank and not what is harming the fish, treat tank then feed Pepso.
My gourami is a huge piglet so he gobbled it all down I can pretty much hand feed him he's such a good eater.
I'm sorry your fish is so sick though I hope he pulls through.
 
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