Having made every newbie mistake in the book, can someone out there please set me straight? The 54 liter (14 gal.) tank is about 3 weeks old and somewhat over stocked: 3 platies, 5 neon tetras, 3 corys, 1 honey gaurami, 2 rams, 3 glass shrimp. We got contradictory advice on feeding (once a day, twice a day, etc.) and consequently overfed. We also had the light on too long—from 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m.. The result has been one chewed up platy female, the male ram always spits out his food (apparently never eats), the cories (initially active) just sit in the corner most of the time doing nothing, the glass shrimp (also initially active) hide behind the heating element (not turned on) and we have a fresh outbreak of brown algae spots, on plants, decorations and starting on the front glass. First steps have been: to isolate the platy in a net box for healing, lights are on now only from 11:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m., and no feeding for almost 3 days. This has slowed the algae some but, of course, not stopped it. We fed again this evening, just a little. The fish all look a little thin and have all apparently become bottom and plant feeders, tasting and pecking at anything that will hold still. So, which fish should we get rid of, and how do we get rid of the algae, and ultimately create a happy little world?
set me straight, please
- Thread starter bill-in-berlin
- Start date
OK, the age of the tank at 3 weeks tells me that you are probably still in the midst of establishing your "cycle" that is growing the bacteia necessary to process the fish wastes in the tank. If you have a water test kit, please tell us the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Also pH of the tank, pH of fresh tap water, nitrates of the tap water. If you do not have a test kit, I use the Aquarium Pharmacuticals kit that is $11 online at PetSolutions.com and gives ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, high range pH. Tetra kit is good also, those dip sticks are often in error.
Next, I need to know about your water changes. With a fully stocked tank, I'd suggest at a minimum 25%/week, 50%/week is much better and certainly while the fish are so unhappy will be a good idea, however you need to get there slowly if you have not done much water changing so far. If you have not done any water changes, then do a 10% water change, daily for 7 days then go to 50% water changes each week. Be sure to match water temperatures, and use the proper dechlorinator for chlorine or chloramine as your water dictates. If you are not sure, use one that removes chloramine, pay the few bucks extra to be certain. I like Prime, myself, for it handles chloramine and also helps with nitrites and free ammonia, which is very nice to have for your fish if the tank is cycling or power goes out for awhile and the filter is down. Follow directions on the bottle, and if the tank is having high ammonia, feel free to add enough to treat the entire tank, it will help the fish a lot to bind up the ammonia and nitrite that is bothering them now.
As for the brown algae, just leave the light off conpletely until you are there wanting to see the fish, assuming there is some light in the room normally. A dim tank is not a problem, you just won't see them too well. You may want to get a timer and put the light to come on at whatever hours you are around to enjoy seeing them. The brown algae will fade, or you can remove tank decor a bit at a time to scrub the algae off and then lay the decor in the sun to naturally bleach clean.
All the fish are sad, even aggressive, due to the likely poor water quality. The Prime and water changes will help this a whole lot. The algae is not affecting the fish so try to ignore it for now, it actually allows some micro critters to grow and this is what they fish are pecking at. If you scrape the glass of algae, do a water change right away to remove the floating bits as they will just start to grow again once they settle down. Best to hold a siphon in the palm of the hand that is scraping the algae if you can.
If you were going to get rid of any fish, I'd vote the platies out, for as live bearers they may overpopulate the small tank. Otherwise the rest are fine, even the shrimp.
Next, I need to know about your water changes. With a fully stocked tank, I'd suggest at a minimum 25%/week, 50%/week is much better and certainly while the fish are so unhappy will be a good idea, however you need to get there slowly if you have not done much water changing so far. If you have not done any water changes, then do a 10% water change, daily for 7 days then go to 50% water changes each week. Be sure to match water temperatures, and use the proper dechlorinator for chlorine or chloramine as your water dictates. If you are not sure, use one that removes chloramine, pay the few bucks extra to be certain. I like Prime, myself, for it handles chloramine and also helps with nitrites and free ammonia, which is very nice to have for your fish if the tank is cycling or power goes out for awhile and the filter is down. Follow directions on the bottle, and if the tank is having high ammonia, feel free to add enough to treat the entire tank, it will help the fish a lot to bind up the ammonia and nitrite that is bothering them now.
As for the brown algae, just leave the light off conpletely until you are there wanting to see the fish, assuming there is some light in the room normally. A dim tank is not a problem, you just won't see them too well. You may want to get a timer and put the light to come on at whatever hours you are around to enjoy seeing them. The brown algae will fade, or you can remove tank decor a bit at a time to scrub the algae off and then lay the decor in the sun to naturally bleach clean.
All the fish are sad, even aggressive, due to the likely poor water quality. The Prime and water changes will help this a whole lot. The algae is not affecting the fish so try to ignore it for now, it actually allows some micro critters to grow and this is what they fish are pecking at. If you scrape the glass of algae, do a water change right away to remove the floating bits as they will just start to grow again once they settle down. Best to hold a siphon in the palm of the hand that is scraping the algae if you can.
If you were going to get rid of any fish, I'd vote the platies out, for as live bearers they may overpopulate the small tank. Otherwise the rest are fine, even the shrimp.
Thanks for the response and benefit of your experience. I did my first 33% water change last weekend as recommended by the store (they said every two weeks). I didn't know about gravel vacuums until two days ago. I have one now and can do a more effective job now. I was planning to do another 33% this weekend. I don't have a test kit yet and don't know what I'll find here (Berlin, Germany) for brands. Your Platy advice sounds right. The isolated female is pregnant and about to pop. More fish I don't need.
I would definatley get rid of some of those fish in that tank. Rams are pushing it as far as tank size to begin with. They really shouldn't be in anything less thana 20 gallon tank, IMO. If you got rid of those then the tank would still be highly stocked but managable. The platies will probably breed but the gourami will eat the babies pretty quick.
Unless you have live plants then I would probably just leave the tank lights on in the evening when you are home and want to see the fish.
The above water change schedual is a good idea to follow. The more fresh water the fish have the better. And right now feeding every other day is probably for the best.
Read the stickies in the newbie forum, especially on cycling, good information in there.
Unless you have live plants then I would probably just leave the tank lights on in the evening when you are home and want to see the fish.
The above water change schedual is a good idea to follow. The more fresh water the fish have the better. And right now feeding every other day is probably for the best.
Read the stickies in the newbie forum, especially on cycling, good information in there.
In case anyone checks back with this thread, here's how things have gone. I went to the lfs and the friendly German gal with 30 years experience told me not to get excited. She tested my water for nitrates and said they were a little high, and said that the cycling wasn't quite finished. Then she told me to try a new product that would sort things out. It's called "TOXIVEC" and I don't know if this is exclusively a German product or the German name of something universally used. In any case, it claims to immediately eliminate ammonium and nitrates, eliminate chlorine, protect mucous membranes, reduce the number of water changes necessary, locks up heavy metals, and prevents algae growth. (Apparently it does everything but kiss on the first date.) Anyway, I tried it directly into the tank at the proscribed amount, then the following day, (today) I did a 33% water change with water prepared with that stuff. I scrubbed the brown junk off my decorations, and voila. Everyone's happy again. The cats are busy, no one is chasing anyone, the Ram's gobbled up their share of the bloodworms, all the fish are bright and spunky, the tank is a tick clearer and certainly better looking.
So, I don't know what this does to the overall scheme of cycling (tank is still only about three weeks old with fish on board in two stages during the last 2). Nonetheless, this seems to have worked like a "silver bullet."
If anyone has experience with this stuff or can tell me when the bottom is about to fall out with disaster lurking just around the corner, please do.
So, I don't know what this does to the overall scheme of cycling (tank is still only about three weeks old with fish on board in two stages during the last 2). Nonetheless, this seems to have worked like a "silver bullet."
If anyone has experience with this stuff or can tell me when the bottom is about to fall out with disaster lurking just around the corner, please do.
Anything that claims to eliminate water changes to any degree is probably not telling the whole truth. Freshwater for a tank is a really good thing.
Also you said nitrates, but did you mean nitrites? If there are nitrates present that is good as it means that the cycle is working. Nitreates are the end result of the cycle and only plants or water changes will deal with it.
The product might be a great water conditionaer, but I would still be doing water changes, especially with a heavy load of fish.
Also you said nitrates, but did you mean nitrites? If there are nitrates present that is good as it means that the cycle is working. Nitreates are the end result of the cycle and only plants or water changes will deal with it.
The product might be a great water conditionaer, but I would still be doing water changes, especially with a heavy load of fish.
You're probably right about my translation. I'm pretty sure that was indeed a nitrite test.
After the treatment with TOXIVEC and the water change, today things continue to look exceptionally good. The fish all have fantastic color: the Rams have brilliant blue spots and markings, a purple tinge to their flanks, the orange coppery tips are glowing and they are happily busy all over the tank. Actually everyone is in this condition, bright, active and peaceful:the corys, tetras and platies too. The only holdouts are the glass shrimp, who seem to be active when the lights are out. Otherwise, they remain as out of sight as they can get. The water has also changed visually. It always seemed pretty clear before, but today it's approaching crystal clear.
Is it possible that the actions taken have helped us reach a cycled condition, or do you think that was just a band-aid to get us past a developing crisis? I don't have a water testing kit with which to monitor the chemistry. I've just been going on the apparent condition of the fish and plants and following the steps suggested by the lfs (they tested us).
I also fed red mosquito larvae yesterday. Quite a big hit with all. The large male ram finally got a decent meal. I'm assuming that has also contributed to the apparent level of satisfaction in the tank.
Any tips on what I should be looking for in the next days?
After the treatment with TOXIVEC and the water change, today things continue to look exceptionally good. The fish all have fantastic color: the Rams have brilliant blue spots and markings, a purple tinge to their flanks, the orange coppery tips are glowing and they are happily busy all over the tank. Actually everyone is in this condition, bright, active and peaceful:the corys, tetras and platies too. The only holdouts are the glass shrimp, who seem to be active when the lights are out. Otherwise, they remain as out of sight as they can get. The water has also changed visually. It always seemed pretty clear before, but today it's approaching crystal clear.
Is it possible that the actions taken have helped us reach a cycled condition, or do you think that was just a band-aid to get us past a developing crisis? I don't have a water testing kit with which to monitor the chemistry. I've just been going on the apparent condition of the fish and plants and following the steps suggested by the lfs (they tested us).
I also fed red mosquito larvae yesterday. Quite a big hit with all. The large male ram finally got a decent meal. I'm assuming that has also contributed to the apparent level of satisfaction in the tank.
Any tips on what I should be looking for in the next days?
Well unfortunatley you can't tell how good water is from lookign at it. Products like the one you mention, IMO, are great for people to have on hand and work to help get through crisis situations. But a properly cycled tank will take some time and will have a bacterial load large enough to support the current fish load. I would personally be doing water changes every couple of days for the next week or so, especially if you have no test kits.