Sick Cichlids

[MRomalin]

:help:

Hi, I found this board while trying to figure out what's wrong with my "Blue Ahlis" (PetSmart name sp?) and hope someone can help before I lose them!

I have four of them in a 150 VAT-type tank plus a mix of other Africans (and two South American stragglers that would be in a different tank if I could catch them.) I've had the two sick guys for about two years. They were among the first in that tank. (I can't really remember if I set the tank up two or three years ago).

About 10 or so days ago, I noticed these two started turning very dark--almost black. Within a couple of days, they started looking "sucked-in" and their fins started getting ratty. I found Melafix at PetSmart, so I gave it a try. Their fins started looking a bit better, but then I noticed that one had a white "string" hanging from his side--guessing some type of anchor worm? I did a water change 30% or so. Then I treated with Rid Ich+ (haven't done a water change since--yet). The worm thing looks more like a patch of dead scales sloughing off now.

After the Rid Ich treatment, the other guy (w/o worm) has started to regain a little better colour, and doesn't look quite as sucked-in, but both of them have sort of a popped-out eye appearance and possibly the hole-in-the-head dents--hard to tell.

I picked up some Parasite Clear tablets today, but haven't used them yet. I suppose I should do a water change from the Rid Ich first, for one; and, I'm not sure whether this stuff is the appropriate treatment.

PLUS: (just checked for the purpose of this post) Since yesterday, Ammonia spiked from 0 to 3.0(mg/L), Nitrates are more than 200 (using dip sticks, and colour is neon-pink--not on the chart), but Nitrites are 0-0.5. The GH is 120-180, KH 240, the pH was about 8.0 now it appears to be 9.0 ? and I didn't buffer the water change). Temp is 80 deg F. I rinsed bio-wheels and changed filters. (Two Penguin 350 power filters). Aeration is full-length bubble tube with AP 300 pump.

All the other residents look well. There are 20 fish, ~65-70 total inches, less than 0.5 inches per gallon if I'm calculating correctly. It was easier to give that then try to itemise individual and their sizes.

Please help. I don't know what to do, or what to do first! (PetSmart closes in 2.5 hours! That's the only local med source I have).

 

[excuzzzeme]

Adding 1 teaspoon salt for each 5 gal water and turn up heat to 82 -84 for 2-3 days. reduce heat and do a 50% WC. Parasites cannot live in a salty environment. The fish will be ok for short term. First do sufficient WC to get water parameters back down. (Not all at once!) Change 20-25% everyday until paramteres are in check. With each change add the salt for the amount of water changed. Bring the salt up slowly and then back down slowly after setting for 2-3 days. Use regular aquarium salt or Kosher salt.

 

[MRomalin]

This is probably going to sound stupid, but I'm confused.

Do the daily 20-25% with the salt, and temperature up, over 2-3 days, then reduce the temp and do 20-25% daily over 2-3 days? (so about 50% each time?) Did I get that right?

 

[Rbishop]

I don't think you have ich.

And I believe you should be using a good liquid test kit vice the unreliable dip strips.

What exactly is your fish mix? The inch per gallon rule is totally bogus.

What is your normal water change routine?

I would start with just water changes, 10-15% every 6-8 hours. You need to get that ammonia down to zero.

 

[MRomalin]

Mix:

4 blue ahlis
2 electric yellows
1 kenyi
2 auratas
2 yellow tal acei
2 bumble bees
1 demasoni

My neighbour (w/much longer arms than me!) managed to catch the two South Americans since my intro post.

I drew 30g out and have ~30g conditioning in a 30g tank w/ a 200 gph bio-wheel. I treated the remaing with Ammo-lock because of the spike seemed rather intense for 24h. I used stress coat and stresszyme in the water I'm condition to replace.

I change q 3-4 weeks, and buffer if needed over a 5-7 days. I vacuum, clean deco and scrub-down glass q 2 mos, but use a Mag-Float whenever I notice growth. I had a cyano bloom issue a little over a month after installing a flora-bulb--gave up since these guys are plant nippers. I haven't had any algae trouble since changing back to a standard bulb.

I have "good" kit (another loverly PetSmart 200% markup product--so not sure if it's all that good or not. ??) It's the Instant Ocean kit. It claims to be an appropriate test-kit for an African Cichlid tank as well. I'm waiting on ammonia results from original water now.

Is that helpful info?

When you say that the 1"/gal rule is bunk, does that mean less or more, or that total inches per gallons isn't necessarily relevant at all?

 

[Rbishop]

What are ammonia/nitrite/nitrates and pH on your tap?

I fail to see why you are conditioning your water..basically not necessary at all.

Many things come in to play when judging stocking besides length...sex, diet, territory, aggression, decor, personality....and more.

The closer your tank is to your tap, the better for stability.

 

[MRomalin]

I've never tested the water direct from the tap! I didn't know that I should!

I ALWAYS condition before adding because the resident PetSmart expert said it was necessary to remove chlorine (using city water) and make sure that water changes didn't mess up tank condtions. (???)

Having used the better test kit, ammonia is 0.4 (mg/L) on original water. This kit has a two-step (powder packets) added to measured water specimen. I haven't carried out additional tests yet.

So, you don't recommend pre-conditioning water before adding?

 

[msjinkzd]

using a water conditioner to remove chlorine/chloramines is vital, i think there was a misunderstanding about what you meant by "conditioning"

 

[Rbishop]

I add straight to my tank on refills..using Prime. Unless you have some very specific issues such as for breeding or unusual tap conditions, like extremely hard water from Texas and southern Ca, it is usually not necessary.

Most water systems in the states now use chloramine and it does not gas off, which was the original intent of "pre-aging".

Do a round of samples on your tap water...the pH sample should sit out overnight in a shallow dish first. Your water doesn't go thru a water softener does it?

Chlorine/chloramine can kill your bacteria colony, which is what converts ammonia wastes to nitrite, and the nitrite to nitrates. We remove the nitrates and replenish TDS with water changes.

 

[MRomalin]

Will do on the tap water checks.

I'm fairly certain that this area uses chlorine, as well as water here being considered "hard." (e.g. a friend in the neighborhood with softener/filtration can't use regular detergent in their HE washer, but I can, w/o Suds alarm.)

Speaking of the NH3 to NO2 to NO3 process, does it mean anything in particular when NH3 and NO3 is high, but NO2 is zilch? I would have assumed that NH3 would be low, while NO3 was high, and NO2 would be somewhere b/t...

What does TDS mean? (it took quite some time just to figure out what LFS meant on the site...I can't find TDS!)

(ETC spelling)