Sick or beaten up????

[cmartin]

I have a male Golden Gourami who has been in QT with an Angel for the past 6 weeks. I was about to move them into one of my larger tanks when I noticed that the Gourami was not looking well.

I have seen a few chases and the Gourami did have a 'bite' out of his lower fin, but that is the only damage I have seen. It is usually the Gourami chasing the Angel - but the Angel is too fast for him.

There are red spots on his fins and it looks like some on his head. I thought that perhaps he got himself wedged between the heater/glass or perhaps the filter and then the Angel may have taken advantage of the situation.... Just guesses.

Do you think these marks are from fighting or is it some sort of infection?
Weekly 50% WC and Vac. I will be doing water tests in the morning.

 

[Virtuoso2K12]

Beaten Up!

 

[Carla G]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to move the angel and put some salt in the gourami's tank to sooth his wounds to his ego and his woulds to his fins.

 

[Lupin]

Hemorrhage Septicemia (Aeromonas hydrophila)
Symptoms:
Bright red streaks on fins (caused by vascular inflammation due to systemic/bloodborne bacterial infection), patchy red discoloration around the body, pop-eye, protrusion of scales, distended abdomen, rapid breathing

Causes:
Gram negative motile rod bacteria. It is usually associated with poor water quality, stress and overpopulation. Transmission is done by contamination of water with diseased fish.

Treatment:
Broad spectrum antibiotics. Frequent water changes are necessary to improve water quality and allowing recovery of fish.


Picture for reference purposes.

 

[cmartin]

Thanks Lupin - that certainly does sound like the problem.
I will start treating with Maracyn II.

I wish I knew how he ended up like this.
I do weekly 50% WC and Vac - do my best to not overfeed - and for the last 6 weeks everything was fine. Just him and 1 Angel in the tank - and the Angel looks fine so far.

I was just about to move him out of QT...

Thank heavens for long QT times.

 

[cmartin]

I think I figured out where it came from :mad2::mad2::mad2:

I have tried to be very careful and have a separate set of equipment to use on my QT tank - nets, python end, etc. and I use one set of hoses to remove water and another set to fill. I have really tried to avoid any type of cross contamination but....

Last weekend I picked up a 'free 65 gal Hex' with fish. All I had to do was empty it and take it away from a 3 story walkup apartment. A bit of work but the tank is perfect - really - really - really dirty but in good shape.

This is where the problem started. The tank was so dirty that I setup one of my 'extra' tanks (the ones I can't find a permanent home for yet) for the fish. The previous owner changed the filter media every month or so and was told to never remove more than 25% of the water at a time..

So the process is - use the QT equipment on the QT tank(s).... I already had two tanks in QT - one with 2 Angels and 4 Upside Down Cats and the other with 1 Angel and a male Gourami.

I just checked the tank with the 'free fish' and a whitish Angel is showing signs of it as well.... :wall:

So - this tank - still has high Nitrate readings as I am trying to bring them down over time so that I don't kill the fish... and the stock is:

2 Goldfish - 1 comet (about 5 inch) and 1 that is really round and all fins (sorry no idea of the name)

1 Black shark (catfish) about 6 inches.

1 Angel - whitish colored - this is the one I see the 'bleeding in the fins on. There was one other Angel but it passed on the second day.

1 golden loach - about 3 inch

1 pleco - about 8 inch

and two smallish fish - tetra like - don't know what they are yet.

So... I spread it from an infected QT into my 6 week healthy QT tanks...:wall:

I am now very convinced of two things:

1. MTS is real - and I am hooked!

2. Tanks that come with fish are a BAD deal at any price - this is the second time I have received a 'free' tank with fish and had to nurse them back from being in a poorly maintained environment - only to give them away as they are never fish that I want.

Thankfully my main tank is fine - it has its own equipment used solely for that tank.

I did some reading and it said that the fish has to be weakened in some way to be susceptible - poor water, open wounds... The Gourami did have a bite out of his fin as he was harassing the Angel and got bit. The Angel in the same tank looks fine - so far anyway.

Does anyone know if that is true?

I will medicate the other QT (Angels and Upside Down Cats) if it is needed. No signs of problems in there but with the Cats it is hard to see them most of the time. I just don't want to medicate if it is not necessary.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Coler]

I'd say either he came in sick, or the stress of the beat ups together with the usual stress of coming home from LFS have brought on disease - that looks more chronic than some nips and bruises to me.

I would remove from the company of the Angel, keep water conditions pristine (Nitrates as low as you can keep them - daily water change) and monitor a couple of days see if it begins to show improvement. If not, break out the maracyn as per Lupins suggestion.

edit : posted at the same time as you did above - 'the fish has to be weak etc' - stress of moving house plus aggression plus some nips would constitute sufficient to allow the disease take hold.

No need to medicate the other tank if you see no symptoms.

 

[cmartin]

Thanks Coler.

I am already medicating the Gourami's QT tank and will pick up a tank divider later today to keep the Angel away - I just don't want to spread this any more than necessary.

I know I will have to treat the new 'free fish' as well now that I know what signs to look for it is definitely in that tank.

What about my third QT - 2 Angels and 4 Upside down cats.

No aggression in the tank at all and everyone seem healthy... should I treat it anyway?

 

[Star_Rider]

from the sounds of it the tank may have had OTS(old tank syndrome) high nitrates/TDS and this may have contributed to the septicemia

be cautious of changing water too quickly tho as the fish may have become use to the bad water.

 

[cmartin]

Hi Star rider - that is exactly what I am dealing with - doing 25% changes every two days and trying to monitor levels. Now I have to medicate along with it.

This is exactly why I say 'free tanks with fish' are not worth it.