Skinny Disease/Chronic wasting Syndrom

PsyKick

PsyKick

AC Members
Aug 14, 2008
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Arcata Ca
Hi there,
I just discovered that one of my botia striata looks like he has skinny disease. He is extremely emaciated, and I know its not a feeding issue because all of the other fish in the tank are "fat and sassy".
I don't know how long he has been like this as I only discovered him the other day (he seems to have moved into a corner of the tank with vegetation and doesn't stray far from it).

I am looking for advice on treatment options.

The tank contains:
Red Cherries, probably 50 or so
Malaysian Trumpet Snails
Ramshorns
8 Botia Striata
8 Kuhli loaches
and 1 Albino Bristlenose pleco

Its a 55 gallon, fully cycled for a long time, I am running a Marineland c-360 for filtration, no Carbon media.
Params are all nominal, I do 25% water-changes every weekend using nov-aqua plus to condition. Fish are fed flakes and pellets, I try to mix it up so they are never always eating the same thing, currently I am using tetramin tropical flakes. Occasionally they get par-boiled zucchini as a treat.

Any ideas? Any more info you need to know?

Thanks in advance!!
 
Sorry to hear about your fish :(
And sorry I don't know anything about this disease, but perhaps you could try to QT him? That was just a suggestion
Good luck
 
I would get him out of the tank with the others and quarantine him ASAP. Be very careful with handling the fish and the tank water.

Jaysen may be right about this being fish TB. I've never seen it, myself, but I've read a bit about it.

In this forum in the Sticky "Freshwater Disease Guide" you can find information about fish TB, that is informative.
Here's the link.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1657403&postcount=22


Here's some info I had pasted and copied from another forum some time back that may be helpful, too.

"This "wasting disease" you are describing is probably pescine tuberculosis. From what I've seen and heard it seems to be most common in livebearers. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do for a fish with TB--it is 100% fatal. Normally I hate advising euthanasia in any case due to fish's capacity to recover from disease, but in cases of TB it is really better to euthanise to prevent the fish from suffering. Furthermore this disease can in rare cases be contagious to humans. People who catch it have large wounds in their hand and perhaps a weak immune system. The disease won't kill a human but it causes a bad skin infection. So, be careful when handling fish and tanks infected with TB. Another thing you should know is that I have heard that bleach does not kill the TB germ. So...anything that comes into contact with these sick fish needs to be chucked.

It is good that you isolate these fish immediately. The disease spreads three main ways--the fry of an infected fish may have the disease passed on, by eating the body of a dead fish infected wiht the disease, or by eating their poo.(:P) So, the other fish in the tank may be perfectly fine. I lost an entire tank to tuberculosis not too long ago...except for my two little Otos who watched all the "hardier" livebearers drop off one by one and never batted an eye through the whole thing.

One more thing to know...the disease can have an incubation period of up to 6 months. So, any fish exposed to an infected fish should be quarintined for 6 months before you put them with other fish or put other fish with them.

Just for the reference, besides extreme weight loss and wasting away some other symptoms which may or may not occur are:
-initial bloating, followed by the weight loss
-loss of apetite, either partial or complete
-curved/deformed spine; hunched over
-inactivity--sitting on bottom or hanging at surface
-symptoms of finrot
-symptoms of dropsy (bloating, scales protruding, and/or popeye)
-skin lesions
-long feces hanging from them
-caved in stomach
-alternating seeming extremely sick and then acting ok bloating
-very sudden weight loss
-may either slowly waste away...or else all your fish will die suddenly for no apparent reason.As you can see this disease can mimick many other diseases so it can be difficult to diagnose. Note that these symptoms are not necessarily all present in each individual case of TB...they are just possible symptoms.

Though TB is rare it is important for every fishkeeper to know about it, which is why I have gone into so much detail here. It is essential to act quickly if TB is suspected in order to save any other fish in the tank. And also, avoid pet stores like the plague that have tanks with lots of dead fish (since that is how the disease is spread), or with fish exhibiting any of these symptoms."


The above information was from the site: Fishlore.com in a post by Omorrokh.

If this is fish TB you need to be very careful and not expose yourself. Usually cuts or breaks in the skin can open the way for infection, so be careful.

EDIT: I have read that some have treated this successfully with Kanamycin and B6, but it is a long and arduous process, and the illness is usually so likely to be fatal that most authorities recommend euthanasia of the infected fish.

Here's another site that describes symptoms and provides more info regarding fish TB.
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/disease/tbc.php
 
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Loaches can get chronic wasting aka skinny disease, more of a symptom than 1 disease. It's often thought to be from parasites but can be bacterial or involve secondary bacterial infection.
Levamisole is what I've used but it's no longer available easily. Flubendazole in the water or fenbendazole in food if the fish is eating. I'm not sure where you can get flubendazole.

Edit: here's a site with all 3 http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html

I'm not sure of invert safety with these meds
 
fishorama said:
Loaches can get chronic wasting aka skinny disease, more of a symptom than 1 disease. It's often thought to be from parasites but can be bacterial or involve secondary bacterial infection.
Levamisole is what I've used but it's no longer available easily. Flubendazole in the water or fenbendazole in food if the fish is eating. I'm not sure where you can get flubendazole.

Edit: here's a site with all 3 http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html

I'm not sure of invert safety with these meds
Click to expand...
i sent them an email with what i wanted and i never got a response. anyone have better luck? i cant seem to find flubendazole anywhere else.
 
IMO, if internal round worm such as camallanus, it should show fuller belly than usual. Very difficult to treat with any med and even if it did work, it may need some time to work.
If you suspect camallanus, best to add/mix with food (If fish not eating, absolete) unless one uses the med which can be absorbed thru skin such as Levamisole.

Prazi wont work against nematode (round worm).

It could be mycobacterial infection but I doubt such unless fish were/are exposed to extremely low pH for prolonged time.
If memory serves, fish continued to eat but belly continued to sink in (emaciated) which was followed by white patches then lesion where tissues were protruding thru open area. Eventually their spine curves which was permanent physical damage.
Although was able to sustain such badly affected ones by correcting/maintaing water condition but it was long/slow process.

It could also be caused by many other factors (other worms, etc) which we cant accurately determine.

How about setting up q/t and isolate fish, using water from main tank. If water is not up to par to begin with, you can gradually correct the water condition via proper water changes in q/t.

Try feeding different types of food just for this fish in q/t such as Fz blood, mosquito larvae, daphnia, etc, etc But no Brine Shrimp.


If wants to treat suspecting Mycobacteium or Norcardia as culpit, try Kanamycin or Minocycline (Maracyn II) in ideal water condition in q/t and avoid contact with skin.

Pics?

Hope fish gets better soon.
 
I disagree, Mycobacterium is actually for more common than most people would ever realize, and the disease mycobacteriosis is as well. It is incredibly slow growing compared to bacteria like e. coli but as said is fatal when pathogenic.
it lives within the tissue and is unaffected by antibiotics and even bleach and when applied incorrectly.
In the lab it is often cultured by applying antibiotics to kill competing bacteria.

Antibiotics, especially common ones like minocycline, will only kill other bacteria, leaving room for it to proliferate inside the host body.

You need to remove this sick fish immediately, it won't come back, the symptoms are too progressive. Leaving it in the tank might only cause it to spread the disease to others though fecal matter etc.

Further information can be found here, it's an article by Diana Walstad, by far one of the best I've seen for fishkeepers so far.
http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadMyco_APC1.pdf

Similar article,older by her
http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/00388mycoarticle.pdf
 
Even my children knows germs are all around us and so does tank. Tank is full of microbes, especially well stocked one.
It's matter of controlling and/or maintaining environment to accomodate fish being kept so that fish can maintain their health allowing them to avoid/fight off the diseases such as one mentioned " Mycobacteriosis.

It is not slow growing bacteria. Growth or multiplication of microbes depends on conditions given for them to multiply. They multiply fast when given favorable condition.

Usually higher chances of F/w Mycobacteriosis in very acidic water (too acidic for other non acid fast pathogenic bacteria to survive) than neutral water.

I have ran experiemnts by inducing such very stressful enviroment for fish. When fish began developed visible symtoms, not all came down with symtoms at the same time and some never developed any symtoms. Depending on fish and time of treatment (progress stage of infection), some of infected fish recovered fully and some did not recover.
To my surprise, ones which survived such infection, I found them to be more vulnerable to same infection when I let water deteriorate again toward condition more favorable for acid fast bacteria.

As arachnar has pointed out, it is already present in the tank and in the body.
Key is to ensure fish does not weaken due to exposure to extreme water.
Maintain their health with ideal condition, they can fight off.

As far as Med, it should always be done in Q/T as I have stated thus it does not disturb the balance that your main tank have achieved UNLESS whole tank is infected.
Even so, if extreme water condition is an issue/culpit, one should correct the water condition which may give fish immune system a ability to fight off invasion on its own.

This case of wasting away seemd to be chronic than acute but start checking water to determine if water condition is the issue.

Good Luck!
 
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