The tank that won't cycle

kimmisc

is in your closet.
Mar 12, 2007
963
0
0
50
Florence, SC
I started my 29 gallon on Feb 27th, with fish. (I didn't know about cycling when I bought this stuff)

I ordered bio-spira from that Drs Foster & Smith site, which arrived Tuesday 3/20. It was still cool when it arrived, and I immediately put it into my tank.

Now it's been 2 days since that, and my tank is still not cycling at all! Prior to adding the bio-spira, I was doing daily PWC's to keep my ammonia down to .25. I stopped doing them when I used the bio-spira, so I wouldn't remove the free floating bacteria before it had a chance to settle.

Today my params are 2.0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and nitrates. I am itching to do PWC's and bring the ammonia back down.

It has been exactly 50 hours since I put the bio-spira in. Should I give up on it, and proceed with PWC's? Or has it not had enough time to settle and start cycling the ammonia?

How long should I give it?
 
I would do a 50% water change. DON'T wash the filter media or decorations! I would also gravel vac.

Don't give up. And BE PATIENT. It takes a couple of months sometimes to complete a cycle.
 
The spira is intended to be added back during each WCs, I believe any\ways unless I'm confusing this with someting???

Get ur Ammonia down! It's more important to keep your fish alive than to get a cycle going faster!! Your main responsability is to the fish, not the tank...

You will have to do multiple WCs. Do one 75%, wait an hour and see, but will still need to do another change. Even another 50% WC wil only get you to around .5 which is STILL too high :(
 
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Not disagreeing with you, but who is to say that 2 days of 1.0-2.0 ammonia is any worse than possibly an additional 2-3 months of 0.25-0.5 for the fish if I interrupt the bacteria today? Of course the fish are most important. If not, I wouldn't be here asking for input. :)
 
Not disagreeing with you, but who is to say that 2 days of 1.0-2.0 ammonia is any worse than possibly an additional 2-3 months of 0.25-0.5 for the fish if I interrupt the bacteria today? Of course the fish are most important. If not, I wouldn't be here asking for input. :)

To answer you directly, you are wrong. ANY exposure to ammonia is detrimental. Concentrations and duration simply lead to further harm and stress, leading to perminent damage and even death. And it doesn't take much!

I urge you to read the two excerpts that I found off of the 1st 2 Google hits for ammonia affects on fish --

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"Ammonia[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Ammonia poisoning is one of the biggest killers of aquarium fish. It occurs most often when a tank is newly set up. However, it can also occur in an established tank when too many new fish have been added at one time, when the filter fails due to power or mechanical failure, or if bacterial colonies die off due to the use of medications.
Some of the telltale signs that fish are suffering ammonia poisoning include:
Fish gasp for breath at the surface.
Purple or red gills.
Fish is lethargic.
Loss of appetite.
Fish lay on the bottom of the tank.
Red streaking on the fins.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Ammonia poisoning can happen suddenly, or over a period of days. Initially the fish may be seen gasping at the surface for air. The gills will begin to turn red or lilac in colour, and may appear to be bleeding. The fish will begin to lose their appetite and become lethargic. In some cases fish may be seen lying on the bottom of the tank with clamped fins.
As the damage from the ammonia continues, the tissues will be damaged as evidenced by red streaks or bloody patches that appear on the body and fins. Internal damage is occurring to the brain, organs, and central nervous system. The fish begins to haemorrhage internally and externally, and eventually dies."[/SIZE][/FONT]

...and another source:

"The Effects of Ammonia on Fish

When there is more than zero ppm of ammonia in a tank, it burns the fish. It burns their gills, eyes, skin/scales, nerves and internal organs. It is painful to the fish and can kill fish in a very short time. Some of the signs of ammonia poisoning/burns are:

Flashing - when a fish is being burnt by ammonia, it tries to get away from the pain and damage that is being caused. Since this is impossible, it looks to us as though the fish is making short rushes and spastic movements in his tank. He may even run into the walls of the tank in his efforts to shake off the burning. This is called flashing.

Rubbing - although this behavior is more common with a parasite infection, it can also indicate ammonia poisoning. The fish will rub his gills or eyes against objects in the tank, including gravel, plants and decorations. He is trying to remove whatever it is that is causing him the pain.

Frayed fins - if the fish's fins look ragged and torn, he may have ammonia poisoning. The ammonia eats away at the fins from the tip toward the body. In some cases, it can begin at the body and move outward. This is not to be confused with finrot, which looks like the fish's fins are melting away. Ammonia poisoning can lead to finrot, however. If the fin is damaged to the point that the poisoning has reached the body, the fins may not grow back. If caught before it reaches the body, fins can usually grow back, but they often won't be as colorful or smooth as the original fin.

Lilac colored or bleeding gills - most healthy fish will have reddish gills. Lilac colored gills or bleeding gills can be a sign of ammonia poisoning.

Gasping at the surface - since breathing the water ingests ammonia laden water into the fish's gills, he may try to obtain his air from the clean air at the surface of the tank. Gills that have been ammonia poisoned makes it very difficult for the fish to get oxygen and he may also show labored breathing below the surface.

Lethargy - a fish that is suffering from ammonia poisoning may become lethargic, his movement slowing down to a fraction of his normal activity.

Red streaks - red streaks are the first sign of septicemia, which is normally a bacterial infection. In fish with ammonia poisoning, this symptom may also occur as the ammonia causes hemorrhaging in the delicate circulatory system."


I'm asking you, please - Address your Ammonia immediately! 0.25 is a tollerable level and even this is harmful and not all fish are hardy enough for even this! If you refuse to deal with the Ammonia you might as well get rid of your fish (you wont have any anyways) and do a fishless cycle.

Cycles can last months 5-7, 10+ weeks is not uncommon. During this time you are responsible to provide an environment that is as least stressful as possible to your fish, period. You owe them that much would you not agree?
 
bio-spira contains live bacteria..which means that the bacteria can die.

however, I have cycled tanks using filter squeezins for established tank..it can take a week but can occur in as little at 3 days.

basically bio-spira is doing the same thing.

however, when I add the filter squeezins I add them to the filter or in front of the filter inlet...I want the bacteria to be exposed to the filter.

be paitent..it can take 3-5 days before you see results..in the mean time..tyr to keep the ammonia below .25..it is still very dangerous above those levels.
 
The thing is, the Bio Spira bacteria should be settled in after 24 hours. So doing a water change now should be OK.
 
ct_death, I urge YOU to read the other responses in this thread. Those are examples of how to respond to the question. The information you looked up does not address the question.... if given the choice, which is worse? A short term ammonia spike or an extended period or exposure at a lower dose?

Please, do not get preachy and argumentive with me. Telling me I'm wrong in bold print when I haven't even made a statement one way or the other is just begging to argue, and that's not what I'm here for. You're not even thinking about the big picture. You're just seeing "2.0 ammonia" and using it as an excuse to put someone down. I did not know if doing a PWC right now would discard the bacteria right now. My question was not "is 2.0 ammonia bad for my fish?" :P

Everyone else, thanks a bunch. I'll go ahead and proceed with PWC's today. If the cycle doesn't kick in, I'll order a bigger pack of bio-spira next time.
 
I'll go ahead and proceed with PWC's today. If the cycle doesn't kick in, I'll order a bigger pack of bio-spira next time.

Thank you :)
 
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