to aerate or not to aerate?

G

Ghostshrimp55

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Sep 30, 2005
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Hi all. I have a 55g planted tank that I would like to start fetilizing. I'm new to the planted aquarium thing and have asked questions about it here before. I would like to start using CO2 and ferts to help my plants outcompete algae but, before I do, should I get rid of my air stones? I kind of like them and the fish love them. I'd hate to have to ditch them. I have two six inch air stones running off of a small air pump. Are they causing so much surface motion that they would release the vast majority of any CO2 introduced by a DIY setup? I also have a canister filter so no surface movement from that baby.

Thanks a lot.
 
In a non CO2 added tank aeration is fine but not in a tank where CO2 is added. You will just be wasting all of your gains.
 
How much light are you supplying?
How are your plants growing under their present conditions?
What type plants are you presently keeping?

Adding CO2 would be a benefit to any tank, and as stated above your air stone would counter productive to injecting gas.
I have two 55's and an external cannister in one of them and I like the cannister, but am very disappointed in it's lack of ability to move water. I inject CO2 through a power head and use another power head just to move the tank water and circulate it.
I guess what I'm saying is that if you're happy with your plant's growth at your present wattage and under the current conditions, I'd leave it alone.
Taking the air stones out may create the conditions of stagnant/still water I had to battle and may not be necessary.
Maybe if you'd tell us a bit more about your tank and your goals for it, it would help us from an advising stand point.

Len
 
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The amazon sword is growing like crazy and the red crypt is doing okay. I have some stalks of moneywort (had to do some research to find out its name since I forgot) and some stalks of some other type of large-leafed water plant (for some reason I can never rember the names of these things) and they're only a few days old so no real growth at the moment. I also have two anumbias nanas which are only a week old and no growth there at all. There is also some other kind of sword plant whose name I don't know and it is not really growing at all. It was shadowed by the amazon for a while but I have since moved it into the middle portion of the tank so it is getting more light.

As a note, I do not fertilize as of yet. I want my plants to start growing well first so I'm not just throwing nutrients to the algae. I do have flourite mixed in with the gravel.

My tank parameters:
pH was 7 but is now 7.75 (I think this has to do with the lack of fertilzers and the plant's uptake of nutrients)
KH is 3 (I'd like to raise this a little but don't know how...I think I asked that on this site before but I don't remember if I got an answer)
GH is 5
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 10-20
Temp is 80 F

Lighting: 110 watts of PC flourescent at 6700K (AH kit)

Filter: Eheim classic canister 2215 for a 90 something gallon tank.....so, plenty of movement. (I think I filter all the water every 20 minutes with this filter)

I want my plants to outcompete the algae that pops up in my tank. I also want them to look nice. While the amazon grows quite nicely, the leaves are a little pale and translucent. I'd like them to look better. The red crypt (it's actually the brownish version) is doing okay but it is sending roots above the gravel so I'm guessing some root-feeding is needed. I guess I'm trying to get as much growth as possible with my current lighting situation so I don't have to keep on top of the algae as much as I am. Right now I'm sraping the tank down about once a week. I'm also a little concerned about the change in pH since I have angels in the tank and don't want to lose them.

Hope this is enough info to help.

Oh, and if you need to know this, the fshy inhabitants are:
4 marble veil tail angels
4 honey gouramis
3 julii corys
3 schwartzii corys
5 otocinclus cats
6 zebra danios (hate them)
2 mystery snails
6 ghost shrimp

Oh, and I just read EMG's thread about KH/GH. He mentions a product called Flourish excel. What is it and should I use that in place of CO2 injection? Is it also a fertilizer?

Thanks again!
 
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Your lighting is the same as my lower light 55. The difference is that I do dose and inject CO2. It is not necessary to do either, but it does force faster/better growth. It really depends on what you want to accomplish and how fast you want to accomplish it.
Your swords and Crypts., and Anubia will do fine as they are. The lighting you have will not over power the system so if you are patient you can keep your air stones and achieve nice results with a minimum of work.
If it where my tank I would start using an all-purpose fertilizer at 1/2 or 3/4 recommended strength and see how they respond.
You could also set up 2-2liter bottles of DIY CO2 and inject through a filter or power head. If you do start to inject you will experience faster growth and a need for a full dose of the nutrients and possibly have to go with a stronger dosing regimen as your plant mass increases.
Before injecting I strongly recommend upping your kH to at least 3.5°H. This can be accomplished quickly with baking soda and/or more permanently with crushed coral.
I would test your pH out of the tap by setting out a sample for a couple of hours and then testing. It wouldn't hurt to test for P, N, kH and gH as well.
Then test your pH again in the tank. If it's still way higher, something in the tank is raising it. Not lack of fertilization as you mentioned.
Let us know what your N value is especially. You report 10 - 20 and the fish could be giving this, but it's nice to know what you're getting out of the tap.
How often and in what quantity do you do water changes?

Excel is Seachem's alternative to injecting carbon into a tank, but for most people it is not a cost effective method in tanks over 20 gals. If you've got lots of green and want to avoid the work involved with DIY CO2, it is effective (though not as effective as gas) in supplying carbon.

Len
 
I know that out of the tap ammonia and nitrites are 0. Nitrates are 20 ppm. I'll let the water sit for a few hours and determine the pH. I know that, immediately out of the tap, it is at 7-7.2. I change between 6 and 9 gallons of the water every week......basically whenever I can see the water line below the black trim of the tank because I don't like the idea of merely topping it off. I do a large water change once a month of about 50%. Nitrates in the tank never reach more than 20ppm. Frequently, they're somewhere between 10 and 20ppm.

I've been testing the pH throughout the day today and it seems to be going down. It's between 7 and 7.5 right now. I can't imagine what would be raising it. I haven't added anything to the tank and the ammonia levels are 0. This is why I'm not a chemist.

I've turned off the air stones because that should decrease the surface movement and, in theory, increase the CO2 in the water due to the fish. I'll see what that does for the plant growth and the fish. It's been a few hours since I've shut them off and I'm noticing lots of little bubbles on the amazon's leaves. Hopefully that means that it's producing O2.

I'll see how things are tomorrow. I'm assuming that pH will fall slightly through the night. Hopefully, I won't have a crash. We'll see. I don't have a way of testing P at the moment. I'll look into getting a kit. If money allows I'll get one. If not I'm going to wing it. I'll probably pick up an all-in-one fertilizer tomorrow and give very low doses for now until I decided what I want to do about CO2. I'm leaning towards DIY with a small powerhead.

Oh, and about the kH. Crushed coral, eh? In the filter? How should I go about adding this and will it royally mess up my pH? I'm thinking a very small amount in some kind of bag in the filter?

Thanks for the info. The more the better.
 
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Your fish would really appreciate a weekly 25 - 50% water change. It would refresh the tank and relieve some of the excess N assuming that you're not getting N out of the tap. Hopefully you will test for that as well as pH when you test your tap sample.
As long as you hold the status quo with the tank and don't need to dose large quantities of nutrients, a water change is an important option.
When extra nutrients are dosed regularly a large water change is no longer an option. Now it's a necessity, IMO. Certain elements, particularly traces can build up over time in a tank if it is not 're-set'. Over time, this build up can kill fish. You might want to consider buying a 'Python' water changing system. With this handy gadget you can change 50% of your 55 gal. tank in less than 20 mins. Makes it a snap.
Could be that the fish are raising the N levels. If that's the case or you find N in your tap water, you will need to look for a nutrient mix that has little or no N in it to balance what the fish or tap are supplying.

In a tank that is not injected or dosed carbon, the CO2 concentration is going to stay between approx. 1.5 - 4 ppm. If not injecting, the air stones will actually help draw CO2 out of the air into the water table. If/when you decide to inject, that would be the time to shut down the air stones.
The suggestion for the phosphate test kit at this time was to check your tap for P. If/when you decide to inject and up your dosing substantially, you would definitely need N and P kits. At this point you can take water samples to the LFS for testing if buying any of the kits is a problem.

Crushed coral can be put in a nylon 'filter bag', available at most LFSs. I would put 2 or 3 tablespoons of it in the bag and put the bag in the filter.
It is very slow acting and will not 'mess up' your pH. You probably won't see any change in kH for at least a week....possibly longer, but it will help raise kH over a much longer period of time than baking soda. Baking soda, btw, will raise kH over a very short period of time and dramatically, so be careful if you decide to use that. Add small quantities and test for content.

Len
 
Thank you very much for the advice. My pH has gone back down and I have turned on the air stones again. I'm going to get more plants over the course of the week (assuming that I can find some that don't look like garbage in my LFS). I think I should also get either more otos or some SAEs. I have 5 otos in my tank now and they eat algae......just not a ton of it. The honey gouramis pick at it as well and I'm assuming the ghost shrimp and mystery snails are eating it too. I would just like more help in keeping it off of the plants.

I'm still on the fence about CO2 at the moment. For now, I'm assuming that I have at least some nutrients in the water because the algae are eating something, no? Would it be worthwhile to get root tabs for the amazon and the crypt? I've noticed that the crypt is sending roots above the gravel. That means it wants food, right? Oh, and what about the anubias? I thought I read that they weren't heavy root feeders so root tabs wouldn't really help. Is this accurate?

Thanks again. This really is helping.
 
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