To All People Planning Reefs or FOWLR
- Thread starter musho3210
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Ok, i seriously think that we get your point of view of how to be enviromentally friendly, but can we just respect eachothers opinions and move forward please....
I don't understand the aggression in this thread?
We have a relative newby to the world of aquariums posting something they found useful. Aquacultured rocks. Awesome!!! I'm setting up my tank again after a while away from it. I still have some what use to be live rock but now is dead. I'll but that in the tank but will probably make the rest of the 100 or so pounds this aquacultured stuff. Thanks and I like the looks off the liveaquaria.com ones. Anyways then a few questions are posed. Which is cool. The person answers them to the best of there ability with reasonable although slightly confusing answers. But a moderator and then later on a second one pretty much tells them to shut up. Or at least thats how I read the posts concerning the we have our opinions you have yours so don't push it. If you didn't keep posting in here they wouldn't have anything to comment on but with statements like this is confusing it only begs for the poster to clarify. Then you make comments like I'm not sure if this is better than this because of this. And that statement is replied to well this is why. It is a reasonable conversation. Anyways lets highlight what the original poster is saying.
Aquaculture rock rocks because we aren't taking the dead skeletons of inverts from the ocean that took millions of years to form in the first place.
The original rock that is turned into live rock was just limestone. Pretty much the lowest form of rock on earth. It holds no life is normaly thrown out because it is in the way of something we are after so no harm no foul there.
You still get most the benefits of "real" life rock because the aquacultured stuff is placed on farms around the reefs that give life rock its life. There may be some room for debate on percentage of life on coral rock and farmed rock. But its close and the enviroment benefits in they're belief is worth any difference there.
The rock is put on barren land around a metropolis of sea life. Hmm kinda sounds like the millions of acres of corn around Chicago to me. It works for the most part vary little life is displaced by are fields and in fact some benefit. (I know here in Michigan deer love our crops).
Finally the answer to if Species X breeds and has Y amount of offspring which use to only have 1Z to inhabit but now have 2Z to inhabit asuming X doesn't start having more off spring then won't we kill off approx. 1/2 off the offspring by harvesting our rock farms?
Well if you look at it in the simplest terms possible the answer would seem to be yes. But you would be overlooking thousands of variables. Which is why science is not math. Just to put the argument in a truer light here is the scenario. Species X is a main food source for Species Y. There is a 10 acre area wich both species inhabit. If suddenly there is another 10 acres for both species to inhabit the next round of offspring from species X now has 2 times the area to run and hide from species Y which means more of species X is likely to hit sexual maturity and reproduce which means there will actually be many more times the average number of species X in a few breeding generations. So long answer short. No we won't hurt species X. In fact we will help it because a rock farmer isn't going to ever totally empty his farm. He's got to have next years crop growing years ahead of harvest.
So if you don't like the idea of buying aquacultured rock that is your choice. We respect it. But now you can't say I'm confused that answers are clearly laid out above this statement. Although we would like to beg you to think about what you are doing before you act. After all if we now do have a better way to keep are hobby going without destroying the earth anyfurther why not? After all hobbiest are what destroyed the history in egypt. They had there harvesters take a limited resource that can now not be undone. We are currently painting ourselfs into a box with the fossil fuel issue. I wonder if you would by a synthetic fossil fuel if it became available to save the other resources we have left?
Also being Moderator of a website that supports hobbiest in at least in the past encouraged resposible behavior I would think you'd want to encourage ideas such as these not pick on the poster. After all what would you have to say to somebody who said they just ound a place you could buy a captive born hip. Tang and some person of importance came in and said hey we don't want you to push your opinions on us. We are confused by your statements and want to keep using cyonide to catch our tangs. After all those wild tangs have so much more character due to the experiences they had in the real reef as apose to those posers that only have seen artifical habitat they're whole life.
I do not condone going against mods. But I also do not condone alpha dog behavior on someone that is just trying to spead info on ideas of how to keep mother earth something like she looks like today for the next generation. I don't personally have kids or plan on it but hey neices and nephews would love to see some of the things I've been lucky enough to see. And I am defintly for the flourishing of ideas on how to help that happen. Not the cliche pick and beat up tactics that stop that thinking. After all why do you think we put out hundreds of great athletes a year from our schools each year including people who can be the next Fridge, or Babe Ruth, or Michael Jordan, or fill in your favorite hall of famer here. But we can't seem to put out anywhere near that number of Einstiens, or Shakespears, or Aristotals? I think it might have something to do with the athletes being praised for there contribution while the brain, art, and philosiphy oriented kids get labeled ***s, geeks, nerds, and space cases.
End of rant.
BTW this isn't my first post I had an account back in 03 and 04 let it and the e-mail associated die then started a new one apparantly in 06 and I thought I posted under it but maybe the new design doesn't count old post? Or if not I just read and enjoyed and never posted I'm not sure a year ago seems like forever in remembering what I was doing online.
We have a relative newby to the world of aquariums posting something they found useful. Aquacultured rocks. Awesome!!! I'm setting up my tank again after a while away from it. I still have some what use to be live rock but now is dead. I'll but that in the tank but will probably make the rest of the 100 or so pounds this aquacultured stuff. Thanks and I like the looks off the liveaquaria.com ones. Anyways then a few questions are posed. Which is cool. The person answers them to the best of there ability with reasonable although slightly confusing answers. But a moderator and then later on a second one pretty much tells them to shut up. Or at least thats how I read the posts concerning the we have our opinions you have yours so don't push it. If you didn't keep posting in here they wouldn't have anything to comment on but with statements like this is confusing it only begs for the poster to clarify. Then you make comments like I'm not sure if this is better than this because of this. And that statement is replied to well this is why. It is a reasonable conversation. Anyways lets highlight what the original poster is saying.
Aquaculture rock rocks because we aren't taking the dead skeletons of inverts from the ocean that took millions of years to form in the first place.
The original rock that is turned into live rock was just limestone. Pretty much the lowest form of rock on earth. It holds no life is normaly thrown out because it is in the way of something we are after so no harm no foul there.
You still get most the benefits of "real" life rock because the aquacultured stuff is placed on farms around the reefs that give life rock its life. There may be some room for debate on percentage of life on coral rock and farmed rock. But its close and the enviroment benefits in they're belief is worth any difference there.
The rock is put on barren land around a metropolis of sea life. Hmm kinda sounds like the millions of acres of corn around Chicago to me. It works for the most part vary little life is displaced by are fields and in fact some benefit. (I know here in Michigan deer love our crops).
Finally the answer to if Species X breeds and has Y amount of offspring which use to only have 1Z to inhabit but now have 2Z to inhabit asuming X doesn't start having more off spring then won't we kill off approx. 1/2 off the offspring by harvesting our rock farms?
Well if you look at it in the simplest terms possible the answer would seem to be yes. But you would be overlooking thousands of variables. Which is why science is not math. Just to put the argument in a truer light here is the scenario. Species X is a main food source for Species Y. There is a 10 acre area wich both species inhabit. If suddenly there is another 10 acres for both species to inhabit the next round of offspring from species X now has 2 times the area to run and hide from species Y which means more of species X is likely to hit sexual maturity and reproduce which means there will actually be many more times the average number of species X in a few breeding generations. So long answer short. No we won't hurt species X. In fact we will help it because a rock farmer isn't going to ever totally empty his farm. He's got to have next years crop growing years ahead of harvest.
So if you don't like the idea of buying aquacultured rock that is your choice. We respect it. But now you can't say I'm confused that answers are clearly laid out above this statement. Although we would like to beg you to think about what you are doing before you act. After all if we now do have a better way to keep are hobby going without destroying the earth anyfurther why not? After all hobbiest are what destroyed the history in egypt. They had there harvesters take a limited resource that can now not be undone. We are currently painting ourselfs into a box with the fossil fuel issue. I wonder if you would by a synthetic fossil fuel if it became available to save the other resources we have left?
Also being Moderator of a website that supports hobbiest in at least in the past encouraged resposible behavior I would think you'd want to encourage ideas such as these not pick on the poster. After all what would you have to say to somebody who said they just ound a place you could buy a captive born hip. Tang and some person of importance came in and said hey we don't want you to push your opinions on us. We are confused by your statements and want to keep using cyonide to catch our tangs. After all those wild tangs have so much more character due to the experiences they had in the real reef as apose to those posers that only have seen artifical habitat they're whole life.
I do not condone going against mods. But I also do not condone alpha dog behavior on someone that is just trying to spead info on ideas of how to keep mother earth something like she looks like today for the next generation. I don't personally have kids or plan on it but hey neices and nephews would love to see some of the things I've been lucky enough to see. And I am defintly for the flourishing of ideas on how to help that happen. Not the cliche pick and beat up tactics that stop that thinking. After all why do you think we put out hundreds of great athletes a year from our schools each year including people who can be the next Fridge, or Babe Ruth, or Michael Jordan, or fill in your favorite hall of famer here. But we can't seem to put out anywhere near that number of Einstiens, or Shakespears, or Aristotals? I think it might have something to do with the athletes being praised for there contribution while the brain, art, and philosiphy oriented kids get labeled ***s, geeks, nerds, and space cases.
End of rant.
BTW this isn't my first post I had an account back in 03 and 04 let it and the e-mail associated die then started a new one apparantly in 06 and I thought I posted under it but maybe the new design doesn't count old post? Or if not I just read and enjoyed and never posted I'm not sure a year ago seems like forever in remembering what I was doing online.
I think the original topic has been fully discussed and opposing points of view are complete.
When we close our posts with "end of rant", I have a tendancy to negate all that I read.
No one told anyone to shut up. The constant restating of the point of view was the issue, and always after someone offered an opposing point of view.
We shall close this for now. Thanks for all of your support.
When we close our posts with "end of rant", I have a tendancy to negate all that I read.
No one told anyone to shut up. The constant restating of the point of view was the issue, and always after someone offered an opposing point of view.
We shall close this for now. Thanks for all of your support.
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