toilet fill valve in a sump?

[ffmurray]

Ive been considering adding a sump to my 55g tank. I would like to add some water capacity to the system and be able to hide the filter and heater in the stand below the tank, I have never had a sump in a tank before but i was thinking about the anti siphon hole and power outages and start up. It seems to me(I may be mistaken) but with an anti siphon hole in a set up, when the power goes out you lose the siphon and have to start it back up once the power returns. I was thinking about some kind of valved setup that would eliminate the need for this. Im a plumber and I thought of a toilet fill valve. from what I though of it seems to have several advantages;
1)It works as its own anti siphon setup, when the water gets too high in the sump it would turn off automatically, while leaving all the water in the line so that the siphon can start up on its own once the water level in the sump drops
2)because of how a toilet fill valve works it will shut off at the top of its limit but will not start up again until the water level gets about 2" lower than the start level. From what I have been reading it seems like this could be used to move the water level above and below a bio substrate to get a lot of oxygen to it.
3)it has its own bulkhead built in and a standardized threaded connection for easy hookup.
4)because it is in contact with the domestic water supply of a house it is NSF rated(national sanitation foundation) it probably wont leach anything that will kill fish or us(this would have to be looked into more.)

a couple of issues that I see so far:
1)in order for it to have reliable operation it would need a good filtered input
2)you would need the amount of water siphoned in to the tank to be able to outpace the pump so that you could have the rising and falling water line, aka you might need more than one fill valve and siphon set up, all calibrated to the same fill and stop heights
3) something else that I haven't though of yet.....

I did a Google search of this and found nothing, and a quick look through the forum. I dont know if this has not been thought of or used before or if its been tried and was a failure. Im very interested in the idea, and if anyone has any inputs or ideas i would greatly appreciate them

 

[wesleydnunder]

The most efficient tank/sump setups that I know of involve overflow weirs and a hole drilled in the bottom of the tank with a standpipe that the water overflows into; a durso is a popular standpipe setup.

A weir and standpipe overflow don't rely on a syphon to drop the water to the sump. The setup you describe would be fed by an HOB overflow box. The way the fill valve works, the level in the sump AND the tank constantly fluctuate as long as the valve float travels up and down. Ideally, the water levels in tank and sump remain the same once flow reaches max. In the case of the weir and standpipe setup, the anti-syphon is drilled into the return line so the water won't syphon back down the return line during a power outage.

Mark

 

[sumthin fishy]

I don't know much about using sumps, but instead of a toilet float, you could check a farm and feed store for water bowl floats. They are sized for different ratings (eg chicken coop or horse trough) so would have a lot more flow options. Also, I think some are bottom inlet, so would be quieter.

 

[dougall]

the anti-syphon is drilled into the return line so the water won't syphon back down the return line during a power outage.

This.

I don't think that adding a toilet float valve will solve any problems, it might cause them, and it would definitely be an additional potential point of failure for your water system.

if you are going to use your existing tank with a sump then the easiest option would be to get a HOB Overflow, this is where you would lose siphon in the case of power failure, and you can work around it by connecting a dosing pump to the top of the overflow.

personally I'm not a big fan. and I'd either buy a new reef ready tank, or get an overflow box from Glass Holes drain the tank and then drill it.

you might also want to check what size sump you will be able to use, I'm not sure how many options for underneath a 55 there are, unless it's not going directly under the tank.

 

[ffmurray]

I don't know much about using sumps, but instead of a toilet float, you could check a farm and feed store for water bowl floats. They are sized for different ratings (eg chicken coop or horse trough) so would have a lot more flow options. Also, I think some are bottom inlet, so would be quieter.

Thats an interesting idea, I have installed a lot of water bowl floats, the only problem that i see with them is that all the ones I have seen are all brass. from what Ive read copper and brass should not be in contact with aquarium water for an extended period

personally I'm not a big fan. and I'd either buy a new reef ready tank, or get an overflow box from Glass Holes drain the tank and then drill it.

a reef ready tank is not going to happen for me any time soon, all the glass is tempered so there will be no drilling either.

 

[dougall]

a reef ready tank is not going to happen for me any time soon, all the glass is tempered so there will be no drilling either.

Generally speaking, the probability of any but the bottom pane of glass being tempered is pretty slim, But I wouldn't chance it either.

How are you planning to get the water out of the tank? and how are you planning to filter it?

It's an interesting idea to use a toilet fill valve, but I have more concerns than I do positive thoughts at the moment.

 

[wesleydnunder]

Also, consider this. The fluidmaster you're planning to use will rely completely on gravity to provide 4 or 5 feet of head to drop water down to the sump. The pump output must be less than that volume for this system to work. I'd put a valve on the output side of the pump just in case it has more output than the fluidmaster allows as input. If you had the space, a ball c ock might be a better option if you could insall it on a 3/4 or so line. With 60 lbs of water pressure, a fluidmaster doesn't have a very substantial output. With only the pressure of 5 feet of head, it probably has much less. I think the idea has merit, just would need a lot of work/testing in my shop before I'd trust it on one of my tanks.

Fluidmasters also have a screen on the bottom that will need to be kept clean. A sponge over the intake up in the aquarium will slow the flow as it becomes clogged, offsetting flows....you could always use a float switch and relay to operate the pump.

You SURE a bottom-drilled tank is out of the question?

Mark

 

[ffmurray]

A fluIdmaster can be modified to have a higher flow by removing the head and drilling out the restrictor. I plan on testing this idea out and refining it a while lot more before I would ever consider putting it in a tank,at the moment I just think it's an interesting idea.

I like the idea of a float switch and relay connected to a pump.....

A bottom drilled tank is very much so out of the question at the momenent. Saving up a down payment for our next house and not a whole lot of money going towards hobbies.

 

[msebar]

You can get one from eBay $8 to $10 bucks

 

[ffmurray]

Just to be clear float switch?

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