too much lighting- is it possible?

DaveinSF

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Apr 12, 2005
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I recently switched from a 15W standard canopy (flourescent grow bulb) to 2 x 18 Jebo compact flourescents on a standard 10 gallon glass (20 x 12) The tank is much brighter and easier to see details... but more than that, I hoped it would encourage better growth of my plants, which consist of java moss, a small amount of cabomba, java ferns, an anubias nana, several amazon swords (apparently), and a couple of large-leafed variants of the Petco kind.

The java moss does well and grows under what seems like any conditions. The anubias is being taken over by green algae (slow grower), so I moved it under the shade of the leaves of a bigger plant. The java ferns are doing okay, though the leaves slowly seem to turn yellow and die. Some do better than others. The amazon swords seem to have done the worst since the light change, turning black at the tips and withering away.

Funny, with the 15W, I seemed to have more algae problems, particularly of the hard green spot kind on the glass. With the new lights, the spots seem to have gone away, though I still get some grey hair algae on the heater.

The 15W light was on a timer for up to 10 or more hours a day. I tried similar times with the new lighting, but had to dial it back to around 6 hours a day, which seems to work better.

The tank has a fairly fine sand substrate that is mature. The tank inhabitants consist of three otocinclus catfish, one male betta, and three amano shrimp. They get along well with very little aggression. The betta ignores the shrimp altogether.

Filtration is a Marineland penguin with a stated 100gph flow rate. It is on constantly. I change the water once a week, usually 25-30%. I try to keep nitrates below 20ppm, down to 5ppm after a water change. Ph is kept at around 7.0, though it has fluctuated in the past and tended to drop after time (nitrification at work?), presumably due to soft water. Occasionally I add small doses of baking soda and/or calcium/mineral block specifically made for aquarium use and that seems to raise the Ph. Ph out of the tap will vary significantly as well, though I always regulate before adding it.

I have Flourish, though I am loathe to add anything more than a very tiny amount on rare occasions. I do not add CO2, and I want to avoid doing so. I keep the temp around 78. Could the temp and increased lighting be inappropriate for some of my more slow-growing plants? Anyone with any suggestions given my parameters?
 
DaveinSF said:
The java ferns are doing okay, though the leaves slowly seem to turn yellow and die. Some do better than others. The amazon swords seem to have done the worst since the light change, turning black at the tips and withering away.
Sounds like some deficiency. Your lighting isn't really too bright but the increase you made might warrant some food for the plants.

DaveinSF said:
The 15W light was on a timer for up to 10 or more hours a day. I tried similar times with the new lighting, but had to dial it back to around 6 hours a day, which seems to work better.
Seems kind of like defeating the purpose of increased lighting. Ten to twelve hours is more natural.

DaveinSF said:
Ph out of the tap will vary significantly as well, though I always regulate before adding it.
Are you adding something to adjust pH? Have you checked pH after letting tapwater sit overnight?

DaveinSF said:
Could the temp and increased lighting be inappropriate for some of my more slow-growing plants?
Doubtful. I'm growing java fern under 5wpg in a 20g.
 
To keep the engine of a planted tank running after you push the gas pedal of lighting level, you have to add more fuel. The fuel your plants need are the things you are trying not to add(fertilization and CO2). Either add the fuel or back off on the gas to keep your tank from sputtering and dieing.
 
SnakeIce said:
To keep the engine of a planted tank running after you push the gas pedal of lighting level, you have to add more fuel. The fuel your plants need are the things you are trying not to add(fertilization and CO2). Either add the fuel or back off on the gas to keep your tank from sputtering and dieing.
I really like that analogy!!!

With that amount of lighting, I would really consider adding co2 (either DIY or perssurized) which will REALLY promote growth and assist in removing alage issues. DIY is supposingly easy and cheap as there are lots of posts here regarding it.

Once you get in a schedule for dosing ferts, there really is no more time taken out of your day (I add my when I take care of my cats at night when the lights are off). It adds maybe 3 whole minutes to my nightly chores.

Other than that, I have nothing more to say because everyone above already hit on it.

Aries
 
Thanks for all the replies, guys. I get the idea about ferts and I'll see how the dosing goes.

The suggested dosing level for Flourish is an exceedingly small amount for a 10 gallon tank... a capful is for something like 50 gallons at a time.

Just a quick thought... aren't nitrates caused by fish waste themselves a fertilizer? My hope was that the additional light would cause the plants to help utilize the byproducts of the fish waste.

I think you're right, though. There are nutrients missing in my water that seemingly do not allow the plants to utilize the additional light energy.

One final question: can I assume that a fertilizer like Flourish will take care of that deficiency? Does Flourish itself add any nitrates to the water? Will my filter mitigate or completely neutralize the fertilizer, especially with a new carbon filter? I'm only minorly concerned about the small (.0001%, I think) amount of copper in Flourish, though I do have a small tank and amano shrimp in it.

I have a feeling that I'm not the only one here who has had a far easier time keeping aquarium fish than keeping aquarium plants.
 
DaveinSF said:
Just a quick thought... aren't nitrates caused by fish waste themselves a fertilizer? My hope was that the additional light would cause the plants to help utilize the byproducts of the fish waste.
Yes, they are. However, depending on your plant load and fish load, they may not produce enough waste to keep Nitrates where they need to be. Most of the time, it is not enough.

DaveinSF said:
can I assume that a fertilizer like Flourish will take care of that deficiency?
No, you must determine what the missing link is. However, Flourish is a good All In One product, especially for smaller tanks and most likely will cover your defeciency (though not a gurantee). The nitrogen in Flourish is minimal and most likely will not get you to your necessary level (again depends on other factors).

A fresh carbon filter will negate (I think but I am not positive) some of the ferts because there are some metals in there (Fe, Cu etc) that are needed. The carban will take those metals out.

Just as a note, In my 30G, I do not have a Bio filter anymore - took it out. My bio filter is now my plants. I know this for sure because I have unplugged my filter for some reason and forgot to plug back in for several days(I think it was 4 days). The Ammonia and Nitrites never once registered. I do have a mechanical filter - canister -though.

I myself do not have inverts so I can not answer that.

Good Luck

Aries
 
Read the sticky above about fertilizing. In a nutshell, plants need a variety of nutrients just like everything else in order to stay healthy. Flourish will address trace mineral nutrients like iron, magnesium, manganese, and copper but plants also need nitrogen (supplied by the fishes), potassium, and phosphorus. If any of these are lacking, it will inhibit growth and allow algae to grow.
 
I don't know what the '.....large-leafed variants of the Petco kind.' are, but the ones you mention, with the exception of the amazon swords, are not exactly nutrient hogs.
As mentioned above, Flourish is for trace elements only. You will need to dose N,P and K along with the Flourish to balance the plant diet.
Unless those Swords are large you will need something to use some of these nutrients that you will be adding until they grow in. My guess is that you will regret planting them in a ten because they will quickly out grow that tank, but that's a topic for a whole other thread.
I would look at your LFS for some Water Sprite or similar floater to shade the tank and help use the nutrients. I know it sounds ridiculous to be told to add nutrients and then that you will need extra plants to use them, but when you add a bunch of light, you need to add plant mass and the nutrients to feed it to balance the light. Without doing that you are setting yourself up for algae issues.
Seachem makes a nice line of liquid ferts.(N,P,K), sold as Flourish Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium. Those would do a nice job for you in supplying your Macro elements.
If you want to save a bit of money, pick up a bottle of Fleets Enema at your pharmacy. This will supply the P at a lower price than Flourish Phosphorous.

Len
 
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