Trying to Re-Establish our Tank = PH Too High

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BonesNTX

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Nov 12, 2004
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OK, I searched and searched but didn't find info regarding so please advise?

Aquarium owner of about 15 yrs now...
Our 5 yr old set-up was completely over run by algae, the placotomases had grwon to eating size and sent to live the rest of their days in the river a couple of times.

We completely drained our 55 gallon aquarium about 3 months ago, replaced the 5 yr old gravel after giving everything a good scrub down. Re-filled the tank with quality well water, allowed the tank time to settle...About 2 weeks with filter and air running. Bought a couple of Angel fish (small/cheap ones) and all appeared OK. Another week goes by and I get a couple of Gouramis (small/cheap ones) and 10 teeny tiny Tetra sized gold fish. (That's gold fish as in fish colored gold....Not Goldfish)

All of this time since adding the water I'm checking levels and everything looks good except PH is about 8.0...My PH High Level tests are pegged at the high color.

I go to PetCo and they suggest that since I am having such a contiual problem trying to lower my PH I get this pint of PH lowering fluid for ponds...Instructions say 1 Tbspn per 50 gallons. So over the months I baby this all along slowly adding more and more of the Pond treatment to only have the PH rebound within 24 hrs to the original too high state.

Started buying RO water at the dollar store (66 cents/gallon! = cheap) about 3 weeks ago and to date have exchanged about 20 gallons with that (Of course adding "Right Start" everytime to remove chlorine, etc...) At first I was just adding the RO water but I eventually started adding more of the Pond Treatment as the PH continues to rise to a undesirable level.

At Petco.....I've been told to put a piece of drift wood into the tank to stabilize the PH?
At Petco.....I've been told to add Peat Moss as another alternative to stabilize the PH?

How do we do one / the other / both?


The angel fish died, the little gold fish died and all that are left are the two Gouramis = Happy / Active fish so far.

We want to get our tank up and running again and have lots of fish like the good 'ole days. Any help / advice would be welcomed....Thanks
 
Have you monitored the ammonia levels as well?

Test the pH and KH of the source water. Let the water sit out in a whallow bowl over night before testing.

What did you replace the gravel with? Any other new decorations in there?

In terms of the advice you've been given: chemical additives to reduce pH seldom work. The problem revolves around the KH of the water, which determines how much acid must be added in order to alter pH--with high KH, it's hard to lower the PH and maintain a healthy tank. So, stop using that product--the bouncing pH is much harder on the fish than one that is high, and often those products contain undesirable chemicals that contribute to algae issues. Adding peat moss or drift wood may reduce the ph--how much varies with the type of wood, and how much. But--you may not need to do anything. Most fish, especially those which are commercially bred instead of wild caught, can be acclimated to a variety of pH values, and there are a number of fish species that prefer the higher pH you can offer them.

On another note: there are a variety of 'pleco' fish available, many which will do a better job of cleaning a tank of algae than the commons, and remain a manageable size. Please look into them! Second, I do hope you are kidding about releasing these fish into local waterways. The introduction on non-native species is a serious problem--not only in terms of competition with native species, but also in terms of their survival and the potential for them to introduce disease to native waters. In many states, it is a crime. In any state, it is irresponsible and potentially endangers our hobby as well as the local waterways. Releasing aquarium fish into the wild is not an appropriate way to rid yourself of unwanted fish, and should never even be considered. Sorry for the lecture--this is a serious issue.
 
I am sure someone else will jump in, but what I have been told is that a stable pH is A LOT better than useing the chemicals to alter it. That could be killing your fish. I was also told that the fish will get used to the pH. The best thing is just stability.
 
yea Orion girl is on the dot. Just being curious, whats the hardness and ph of the well water? Like OG said, its better to have a higher ph than for it to be fluctuating all over the place...and even using peat or driftwood you will still have ph swings, because the hardness will help to counteract most things that you can do....the only "sensible" option (assuming its the well water thats allready high ph and hard) is to get a RO/DI unit.
 
We typically have "soft" water from our well.... That is soft to our human senses and not by any "tests".

All other tests come out in the nominal ranges and I even took some to Petco and they said the only problem was the PH is too high...Off their litmus testers scale. I use an "Advanced Water Test" Set = 6 different tests using the little tubes and add the drops of the test solution to view the resultant color versus the enclosed charts.

How about adding some Baking Soda? Is that good for fish / water?

thanks
 
Fully agreed with all replies so far, with a couple of things to add (more for the record than as corrections) Fish will acllimate pretty easily to high Ph, and honestly lower Ph values tend to exist on less stable tanks. The Kh of your tapwater is the primary factor in your PH level. Driftwood and peat can both be effective but they are effective by lowering Kh, and thus Ph. with this in mind, a high KH tank will be far more resistive to their effects so it ends up being frustration more than anything. The only two highly effective and fairly easy ways to lower Ph IMO are:
#1. mix a specific ratio of RO or DI water with your tap to get the desired tank levels. You will have to pretty much do this at all water changes, and keep a very good routine. When mixing, don't add start right or RO right because you are trying to dillute hardness, and those prducts are designed to put hardness into extremely soft/pure water.
#2. CO2 injection as used in planted tanks lowers the PH wih very little effect on KH. This is a good way to target desied levels, and stay reasonably stable (not perfectly stable by a long shot) if you have live plants this work great. if you don't it really isn't worth the trouble.

In any case as said above you really need to find out what your tap water levels are, and decide if you need to change anything and more than likely you don't.

Lastly, the fish deaths were more likely a result of lack of cycling, and or the ph chemicals as mentioned. Read up on cycling, and good luck with your tank.
Dave
 
Baking Soda will increase the pH, not lower it. Really, without knowing the KH of the water, there's no way to know what might help and what will not. Using a mix of RODI and tapwater will typically help lower it--but you have to be consistant with your mixing, and experiment initially to determine the appropriate ratio to use.

"Soft" by our standards often is meaningless in an aquarium--more so when it's soft but has a pH of 8.0.
 
These are all very good suggestions, especially since they're shooting in the dark.

You mention that you have a test kit that tests 6 different parameters, but so far none but pH have been listed. As OG and Seaman have requested so far, pH and KH values for tank water, and pH/KH for tap after left on the counter in a shallow bowl overnight would greatly help in assessing the 'problem'.

It is really very difficult to troubleshoot and give you effective and precise advice without the proper information.

Nitrogen species (NH3, NO2, NO3) would also be helpful in identifying the cause of fish deaths.
 
As requested the water's values are:

KH = 7 (dkh) 125.3 ppm
GH = 1 (dgh) 17.9 ppm
PH = 8.4

I have no way in my test to check Nitrogens as the last person requested. I have the "Master Test Kit" by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.

The only other tests available are Ammonia and Nitrite...Both of which have always been within acceptable ranges.

Thank you
 
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If you can test nitrate (NO2) and ammonia (NH3) with your kit, that's what happychem was suggesting - any levels above 0 are dangerous to fish health (IMHO, there is no 'acceptable' level other than zero when there are fish in the tank).
A nitrate (NO3) test kit is a good idea and worth purchasing. Knowing the level of nitrates in your tank will help you determine when to do water changes and ensure that levels don't get high enough to hurt your fish.
 
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