Ok, after doing a big water change today (still battling high Ammonia) and losing one of my Gourami :O(, I am convinced that I need a UGF. The amount of gunk was incredible and I've been vacing and doing water changes at least once everyday for a week! These may just be more dumb newbie questions, but I'd appreciate any help. Is there anywhere on line that you know of with a schematic, drawing, or picture of a complete installed UGF system? I bought what I thought I needed awhile back and after opening the box and reading what I could on the setup, took it straight back due to pure intimidation. Also, a list of any (all) recommended equipment would be hugely useful. Just so you know, I believed everything I was told at the pet store and am now cycling with fish. I bought a 10G today to house the fish and plants while I install the UGF. Help a newbie save his fish?!
UGF Setup
- Thread starter Hooked Newbie
- Start date
If you decide to add a UGF, please make sure it is a RUGF, reverse flow.
You will start with something that looks like this...
http://www.petsolutions.com/48+X+13+Undergravel+Filter-I-47437480-I-C-25-C-.aspx
The white plates sit directly on the tank bottom and the clear lift tubes will need to be cut for the height of your tank.
You will need to "drive" the RUGF by powerheads or the output (return line) of a canister filter. The powerheads that I recommend are...
http://www.petsolutions.com/Penguin+Powerheads-I-47468550-I-C-42-C-.aspx
...specifically the 660R.
You will start with something that looks like this...
http://www.petsolutions.com/48+X+13+Undergravel+Filter-I-47437480-I-C-25-C-.aspx
The white plates sit directly on the tank bottom and the clear lift tubes will need to be cut for the height of your tank.
You will need to "drive" the RUGF by powerheads or the output (return line) of a canister filter. The powerheads that I recommend are...
http://www.petsolutions.com/Penguin+Powerheads-I-47468550-I-C-42-C-.aspx
...specifically the 660R.
the 10gal will be completely uncycled.. so you'll need to transfer over as much filter media to the new 10gal as possible. Ideally if you have HOB filter on it just put it on the 10gal. But you'll set yourself back futher on the whole cycleing adventure then you are now (more risk to your fish, more deaths) imho.
As for the UGF I believe in the the other thread the advice from the person advocating them said he would use RUGF setup instead. And I have no idea what the best way to set one of them up is, if i was going to do it I would get a Can filter for the tank like a Rena xP2 or xP3 and pump the output of the filter down the lift tubes for the UGF...
As for a power drive powered UGF I'm fairly sure that a good bio-wheel HOB filter will out perform and be better for your tank, and i'm 100% sure an air bubble driven UGF will be very bad in comparison.
You state that "amount of gunk was incredible" which if you was using a regular UGF that gunk would still be there just getting pulled under the gravel to rot. You'd still have to "flush" the UGF (suck large volumes of water quickly out of the lift tubes) and vacuum the gravel with regular water changes (more work) to keep the UGF healthy. Even with a RUGF this matinace is probably necessary. Although if you prefilter with a good can filter it may be better (but then again why use a RUGF if you have a good can filter anyway?).
Anyway, I think changing filter types mid-way through your cycle is going to be the worst thing you can do for your fish.
Find a retailer of "BioSpira" and get that and get a decent HOB filter or better yet a decent can filter, and follow the directions on the BioSpria bottle and your tank should cycle in a few days. (make sure you find a retailer that keeps it refrigerated and keep it refrigerated, and if all else fails order it online like at Foster & Smith).
As for the UGF I believe in the the other thread the advice from the person advocating them said he would use RUGF setup instead. And I have no idea what the best way to set one of them up is, if i was going to do it I would get a Can filter for the tank like a Rena xP2 or xP3 and pump the output of the filter down the lift tubes for the UGF...
As for a power drive powered UGF I'm fairly sure that a good bio-wheel HOB filter will out perform and be better for your tank, and i'm 100% sure an air bubble driven UGF will be very bad in comparison.
You state that "amount of gunk was incredible" which if you was using a regular UGF that gunk would still be there just getting pulled under the gravel to rot. You'd still have to "flush" the UGF (suck large volumes of water quickly out of the lift tubes) and vacuum the gravel with regular water changes (more work) to keep the UGF healthy. Even with a RUGF this matinace is probably necessary. Although if you prefilter with a good can filter it may be better (but then again why use a RUGF if you have a good can filter anyway?).
Anyway, I think changing filter types mid-way through your cycle is going to be the worst thing you can do for your fish.
Find a retailer of "BioSpira" and get that and get a decent HOB filter or better yet a decent can filter, and follow the directions on the BioSpria bottle and your tank should cycle in a few days. (make sure you find a retailer that keeps it refrigerated and keep it refrigerated, and if all else fails order it online like at Foster & Smith).
Thanks Bob! My tank is 12" x 24". Should the filter be an exact fit to those dimensions? Will the reverse mode remove the undergravel debris? Driven by an air pump?
Thanks Kass, Wow! More to think about... So you would recommend just upgrading my HOB (Penguin 150, I think) to an XP2 Canister and adding Biospira? Any setup tips for the XP2 or extra parts / pieces I'll need with it? I like that possibility (afraid of killing my fish), but I think any new tanks I set up (planning a future 55) will include the RUGF + a canister.
In the reverse mode you won't be using an air pump to drive the plates; it will be by powerhead or canister discharge.
The reverse flow pushes substrate debri into the water column to be removed by the canister or HOB.
The advantage is you utilize the entire substrate as a biological filter.
It is amazing how many folks who have never used them are so set against them and just repeat things they have heard. In 30 yrs of UGF and more recently, I have never had one "clog" or had issues with rotting stuff under the plates. But chose what you want.
The reverse flow pushes substrate debri into the water column to be removed by the canister or HOB.
The advantage is you utilize the entire substrate as a biological filter.
It is amazing how many folks who have never used them are so set against them and just repeat things they have heard. In 30 yrs of UGF and more recently, I have never had one "clog" or had issues with rotting stuff under the plates. But chose what you want.
either filter you choose you should use BioSpira to jump start your cycle, it may safe the remaining fishes lives (and sooner the better, now NOW if you can)
Quickest way would be to just get a better HOB and hang it on the back with your existing one and then introduce the biospira
once everything stabalizes you could remove your old HOB if you wish.
If you choose to do the UGF/RUGF route you'll have to empty the tank, and substrate and all that jazz.
You could also introduce a can filter along with your existing HOB and do the same thing, add biospira and once everything stablizes remove the HOB.
People recommend you buy two doses worth of biospira and dose once and store the second dose in your frig and then once nitrites spike add the second dose. Cause in an uncycled tank there won't be much nitrites for the bacteria that eat them to live and they could/may/would die off before the amonina eating ones get established to produce nitrites. Thus the need for the second dose.
Stay away from the other "bacteria in a bottle" products
but imho the safest approch for your existing tank is to add the biospira and most likely upgrade your filtering system at the same time.
Quickest way would be to just get a better HOB and hang it on the back with your existing one and then introduce the biospira
once everything stabalizes you could remove your old HOB if you wish.
If you choose to do the UGF/RUGF route you'll have to empty the tank, and substrate and all that jazz.
You could also introduce a can filter along with your existing HOB and do the same thing, add biospira and once everything stablizes remove the HOB.
People recommend you buy two doses worth of biospira and dose once and store the second dose in your frig and then once nitrites spike add the second dose. Cause in an uncycled tank there won't be much nitrites for the bacteria that eat them to live and they could/may/would die off before the amonina eating ones get established to produce nitrites. Thus the need for the second dose.
Stay away from the other "bacteria in a bottle" products
but imho the safest approch for your existing tank is to add the biospira and most likely upgrade your filtering system at the same time.
Thanks. I ran out and bought an XP2 and it's already setup, but did not come with the bacteria media so I'm headed out tomorrow. I won't be able to get the biospira until tomorrow if I can find it (only 1 decent FS in the area). I appreciate the advice on dosing twice. It may be too late for my Red Dwarf Gourami though. He quit swimming and would just let the current take him away until he came to rest against something. I've QTd him and now he has a strange white fluffy discharge and is only going to the surface to breathe every now and then. I'm feeling guilty, but after reading all of the threads on Dwarf Gourami illnesses I'm beginning to suspect something that was already there. The three dwarves I got from the tank he was in have all had problems (2 died), everyone else is apparently thriving even though I'm still fighting the readings. Thanks again for pitching in to help a newbie!